Why did this pre 21 44 military model go so cheap?I thought this was one of the holly grails of post war revolvers. the auction ended today.Gunbrokers 214075060 
Why so cheap?
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Saw it, figured it would go for too high a reserve so didn't watch the listing. Glad to see someone got a great deal on it.
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Man, I missed that one entirely!!
BruceHMX
Member
Congrats to the buyer/winner. That's a really good deal.
I would guess that the serious money was put off by what looks like a refinished barrel (to me). Does not the lettering on the barrel look overly buffed? Nowhere in the description does the seller explicitly state that the finish is original, although some statements could be construed to imply that, if that's what you wanted to hear.
"Here is a classic! This is a Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector (.44 Special) 4th Model Military also known as the Model of 1950 .44 Military (Pre Model 21) with a 4" pinned barrel. This model, like other Smiths was designated a model number in 1957. This model gun was manufactured between 1950 – 1957. With the serial number, I would estimate it was made in 1955. There is a tiny hint of blue wear on the muzzle and several small pit areas - in two cylinder flutes, inside trigger guard and two very small spots on right side frame/barrel (see photos). [Only describes the condition of the current finish, but does not state that it's the original finish.] Excellent factory original double and single action with a tight cylinder lock-up. [This says to me that the action is original, not necessarily the whole gun.] Has the correct diamond magna grips, but they are not serial numbered to the gun. [Another hint that the gun is not all original.] The gun has matching serial numbers on the frame butt, cylinder and ejector housing. The right grip has a little more wear than the left. The frame/finish under the grips is excellent. The top strap and forcing cone look great. Except for the small areas described above, the blue steel finish on this gun is, for its age, excellent. [This could mean an old refinish, not necessarily original.] Only around 1200 of this model were manufactured. All photos taken in natural light with no flash. Insured shipping FFL to FFL will be $25.00 Actual charges to Alaska and Hawaii. Payment will be with a postal money order or certified bank check. It is your responsibility to determine if this gun is legal to own in your state/area of residence. If you win and don't like this one, please return unfired within three days for a full refund (minus shipping). If you have any questions, please e-mail and I will answer promptly. Thanks for looking!"
Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age, but when I read an ad, I read what is unsaid as well as what is said.
"Here is a classic! This is a Smith & Wesson .44 Hand Ejector (.44 Special) 4th Model Military also known as the Model of 1950 .44 Military (Pre Model 21) with a 4" pinned barrel. This model, like other Smiths was designated a model number in 1957. This model gun was manufactured between 1950 – 1957. With the serial number, I would estimate it was made in 1955. There is a tiny hint of blue wear on the muzzle and several small pit areas - in two cylinder flutes, inside trigger guard and two very small spots on right side frame/barrel (see photos). [Only describes the condition of the current finish, but does not state that it's the original finish.] Excellent factory original double and single action with a tight cylinder lock-up. [This says to me that the action is original, not necessarily the whole gun.] Has the correct diamond magna grips, but they are not serial numbered to the gun. [Another hint that the gun is not all original.] The gun has matching serial numbers on the frame butt, cylinder and ejector housing. The right grip has a little more wear than the left. The frame/finish under the grips is excellent. The top strap and forcing cone look great. Except for the small areas described above, the blue steel finish on this gun is, for its age, excellent. [This could mean an old refinish, not necessarily original.] Only around 1200 of this model were manufactured. All photos taken in natural light with no flash. Insured shipping FFL to FFL will be $25.00 Actual charges to Alaska and Hawaii. Payment will be with a postal money order or certified bank check. It is your responsibility to determine if this gun is legal to own in your state/area of residence. If you win and don't like this one, please return unfired within three days for a full refund (minus shipping). If you have any questions, please e-mail and I will answer promptly. Thanks for looking!"
Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age, but when I read an ad, I read what is unsaid as well as what is said.
Tom
You beat me to it ! Those two pictures were the very ones that I
was going to post. In your first picture, what caught my eye first is
the forged front sight blade. I don't know what is going on with that
blade, but it looks to me like a secondary blade has been put on top
of the orginal - like maybe the original was not high enough.
The roll marking is curious. Either the buffing was uneven, or there
is a slight bulge in the barrel, right at the point where the roll-marking
looks thin.
In your second picture , I noticed the pin. Its been removed, for some
reason or other.
The other picture that should have been posted is the one showing
the interior of the grips. They are numbered to a far-later gun, and
this to me is puzzling. What would a gun, in this kind of apparent
condition, have the wrong grips ? ?
The only answer I can think of is that the gun was worn badly, and
restored. The grips were, perhaps, too far gone, and so another pair
was located. I've seen this before, first hand, and its understandable.
Mike Priwer
You beat me to it ! Those two pictures were the very ones that I
was going to post. In your first picture, what caught my eye first is
the forged front sight blade. I don't know what is going on with that
blade, but it looks to me like a secondary blade has been put on top
of the orginal - like maybe the original was not high enough.
The roll marking is curious. Either the buffing was uneven, or there
is a slight bulge in the barrel, right at the point where the roll-marking
looks thin.
In your second picture , I noticed the pin. Its been removed, for some
reason or other.
The other picture that should have been posted is the one showing
the interior of the grips. They are numbered to a far-later gun, and
this to me is puzzling. What would a gun, in this kind of apparent
condition, have the wrong grips ? ?
The only answer I can think of is that the gun was worn badly, and
restored. The grips were, perhaps, too far gone, and so another pair
was located. I've seen this before, first hand, and its understandable.
Mike Priwer
rburg
Member
Keep talking, guys! You're all making me feel even better about the one I found in December for $850.
I have no idea what a fair price would be on it. It was also my understanding the 1200 production figure was for all of them, with the 5" being the more prevalent.
I have no idea what a fair price would be on it. It was also my understanding the 1200 production figure was for all of them, with the 5" being the more prevalent.
smith revolver cop
Member
I'm no expert, but it sure looks like a bulged barrel in that first picture!
BruceHMX
Member
Oh my Gawd you guys are right the barrel is so bulged it poked out the "AL" on Special...lol.. You guys are way too picky on this gun. First it's photos so you would have to put it in your hand to see if it's correct. Second we all know there is like one guy that could restore this gun and does he not mark them when he does? I can't remember.
Dick remember like 10 years ago when I popped the Pre 21 4 inch on GB for $600. Turns out it was all original and sold for $3000 6 years ago! I've owned 4 Pre-21's. Three being 5 inchers. I remember the roll marks being the same way on them. I've searched for photos of them all day and the only one I can find is the 4 inch.
I still think the guy got a good deal and the seller did say he would take it back which I think is not required by GB.
Hopefully Steve Harris will jump in and comment on it. Dosen't Tom Harvey have one too? Maybe he can post pics and we can compair roll marks.
Dick remember like 10 years ago when I popped the Pre 21 4 inch on GB for $600. Turns out it was all original and sold for $3000 6 years ago! I've owned 4 Pre-21's. Three being 5 inchers. I remember the roll marks being the same way on them. I've searched for photos of them all day and the only one I can find is the 4 inch.
I still think the guy got a good deal and the seller did say he would take it back which I think is not required by GB.
Hopefully Steve Harris will jump in and comment on it. Dosen't Tom Harvey have one too? Maybe he can post pics and we can compair roll marks.
Jack Flash
Member
I think you analyzed the ad very well. I would not have been able to parse it quite like you did, but it's always a red flag when someone dances around whether the finish is original or not.
And when you hear "Excellent factory original double and single action with a tight cylinder lock-up" you know the male bovine excrement is getting deep.
Dave T
Member
GB says there's no result for that transaction number so I don't know what it sold for but man oh man, are you guys picky. Guess that's way I'm not really a collector. If it shoots as good as it looks I'd have bought the thing in a heart beat. (LOL)
Dave
Dave
You have to look at the listing and see all the photos before you can comment objectively on this revolver. There are some shots where the bore is illuminated. A bulge would most likely be very obvious when viewed this way. Secondly the frame does not look to be restored...the S and W logo on the right side frame panel is just too crisp. The serial number (matching) is stamped inside the ejector shroud. Sometimes parts (in this case maybe the barrel) are sent back through the production line after roll marking to fix a blemish or flaw. Hence the weaker markings. I saw this on a daily basis when I worked at Remington as a production supervisor. I do agree with the previous poster who stated that you really need to have it in hand for this kind of detailed analysis. I am not so sure this seller had much to hide.
Cap
Cap
rburg
Member
Dave T, the final auction price was $1408. At that price it was probably a bargain even if it was refinished.
If the winner is a 44 collector, its one of the more sought after 4" guns. Each of us has his/her collecting standards and methodology. Mine is to acquire a passable example, then start looking for a better one. Maybe I should say always be looking to improve any of the ones I've got lying around. I'm not going to run down the guy's gun because there are so few to pick from. Its a good addition to almost anyone's collection (unless he's got better ones lying around.)
If the winner is a 44 collector, its one of the more sought after 4" guns. Each of us has his/her collecting standards and methodology. Mine is to acquire a passable example, then start looking for a better one. Maybe I should say always be looking to improve any of the ones I've got lying around. I'm not going to run down the guy's gun because there are so few to pick from. Its a good addition to almost anyone's collection (unless he's got better ones lying around.)
Jack Flash
Member
People were trying to answer the question posed in the OP.
Put another way: "What made buyers shy away from this one?"
Some very plausible explanations were offered.
Put another way: "What made buyers shy away from this one?"
Some very plausible explanations were offered.
Pitting
It's difficult to tell from the picture, but some of the pitting on the barrel appears to have been blued over. More evidence of a refinished barrel? Maybe. Could have been touched up. That bulge would be the main cause to keep the bidding down IMHO. I think the guy practically admitted that it's a reblue.
I just went to GunBroker to look at the rest of the pictures, and from what I see it's a really nice example, aside from the defects already noted. Again, IMHO, those would be enough to keep the hammer price down.
It's difficult to tell from the picture, but some of the pitting on the barrel appears to have been blued over. More evidence of a refinished barrel? Maybe. Could have been touched up. That bulge would be the main cause to keep the bidding down IMHO. I think the guy practically admitted that it's a reblue.
I just went to GunBroker to look at the rest of the pictures, and from what I see it's a really nice example, aside from the defects already noted. Again, IMHO, those would be enough to keep the hammer price down.
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