Why "titanium cylinders"?

[8shot]

This is a cut/paste from another forum but illustrates concerns with the titanium cylinders. I believe that the 5" 986 revolver (and 929 models) where intended for competition but maintaining the titanium cylinder requires awareness and can be be a PITA. I would think a traditional cylinder material would serve a (competition intended) revolver that sees a lot of rounds serve it better. I can understand titanium in the 2-1/2" (part time shooter) 986 carry version. I like using wire brushes to clean the cylinders in and out.


According to the Smith & Wessons Owners Manual:
Link for the Modern Smith & Wesson revolvers:

Page: 26:
CAUTION: Revolvers with Titanium-Alloy cylinders

• Titanium alloy cylinders weigh approximately 60% of what a similarly sized stainless steel cylinder weighs and yet is able to withstand the same operating pressures. Care and cleaning of the revolver’s titanium alloy cylinder consists of normal gun cleaning procedures using high quality gun oil and cleaning solvents when necessary. However, under NO circumstances should the cylinder’s chambers (charge holes) or front face be cleaned with an abrasive material such as sand paper, Scotch BriteTM, Crocus Cloth, etc. To do so will disrupt its protective surface layer and greatly reduce the cylinder’s service life because of excessive erosion that will take place while firing and will void your revolver’s warranty.

Page 31:

CAUTION: Some cleaners can cause damage to your firearms. You should avoid prolonged solvent immersion and prolonged ultrasonic cleaning of your firearm. Choice of solvent should be restricted to those products specifically developed for firearms maintenance. Damage to a firearm’s finish may occur if these cautions are ignored. Ammoniated solvents or other strong alkaline solvents, should not be used on any Smith & Wesson firearm.

 

[CJH]

I agree for a competition gun. If I knew I was going to send tens of thousands of rounds through it I would definitely want a traditional material. I don’t really see the point of having a titanium cylinder in a steel frame gun. I’d rather have a comparatively minimal percentage increase in overall weight for the durability to handle an exponentially higher round count.

Even for CCW use, if weight is my concern I’d rather go scandium / aluminum alloy frame and then the titanium cylinder makes sense to me. If I was going to go half and half I’d rather have a light weight frame and steel cylinder than the other way around.

It looks cool though ha

 

[Pisgah]

There is only one reason for a titanium cylinder -- light weight. In every other respect, it is NOT the material you want for a revolver cylinder.

 

[CH4]

The lighter the cylinder, the lighter the static weight of the gun and the less work required to rotate the cylinder.

For me it makes perfect sense for CCW with minimal actual shooting. However, there are some masochists that love shooting their uber light, 329, 327, 296, 340, etc. All the power to them.

 

[Hawg Rider]

About 12 years ago I got a great deal from my lgs on a used Model 386 PD. Aluminum frame, titanium cylinder, 7-shot, with aluminum PC carrying case. I thought that this would be the perfect EDC lightweight .357 Magnum revolver. The guy that had it before me must have thought the same thing. That doggone revolver kicked like a mule, and was so uncomfortable to shoot that I couldn't enjoy practicing with it. Even .38 Spl. were painful, and I'm not a baby when it comes to recoil. No chance for a quick follow up shot with the way that lightweight recoiled! I traded in that revolver the following year for a 627-5 and never looked back.

 

[madmikeb]

I've got a 929 that I use for competition. Other then being careful what you use for solvent, I use Hoppes Elite, and using a nylon brush I don't see any issues with maintaining it. The lighter cylinder takes less force to get it turning.

 

[oworthsr]

I'm not an engineer, so my observation isn't scientifically based. But here it is. I suspect the lighter titanium cylinder - with lower rotating mass - allows for quicker cycling (and possibly a lighter required trigger pull weight). Similar to a racing car using magnesium or aluminum wheels instead of steel wheels.

 

[OKFC05]

I bought a Model 646 S&W new 20 years ago and shot it off and on in competition since then, through the various iterations of the IDPA rules as they struggled with what to do with the shrinking % of revolvers in IDPA matches. Currently, the 646 is in the one IDPA Revolver Division, with the added requirement to shoot an arbitrarily increased power factor compared to speed loader revolvers.

As to maintenance, I clean the titanium cylinder with a premium cleaner, nylon brush, and soft cloth. The cylinder looks used, and the protective coating is intact. People who insist on scrubbing their stainless cylinders to make the gun look "new" have lectured me at great length that my gun is terrible and I should get a new cylinder solely because of its looks.
I disagree, and also leave the carburized darkening on the face of my stainless 686s and 66s cylinders.

 

[WR Moore]

Largely, it's for the weight. There's a substantial market for guns that approach the weight of a sheet of Kleenex.

 

[8shot]

I'm not an engineer, so my observation isn't scientifically based. But here it is. I suspect the lighter titanium cylinder - with lower rotating mass - allows for quicker cycling (and possibly a lighter required trigger pull weight). Similar to a racing car using magnesium or aluminum wheels instead of steel wheels.

We understand why titanium is used, we just need to be aware of the other downfalls.

BTW: The 986 cylinder throats are .357 along with the .357 barrel. The reason why the 986 shoots better groups with .358 lead bullets. My little 940 5 shot cylinder measures .355

 

[Hair Trigger]

Titanium and Aluminum both form a natural oxidative layer at their surface that is self-limiting and provides protection from further corrosion. It's basically the same as a light rust on steel, but steel will continue to corrode. Using abrasives disrupt the oxidative coat, so should not be used.

Personally, I feel that Titanium (and Scandium, for that matter) in a firearm is sort of gimmicky. You certainly pay more for it, and the advantage of lighter weight isn't really worth the extra price and care considerations. And sometimes, lighter weight isn't an advantage, either.

 

[reddog81]

I’m pushing close to 10,000 rounds through my 929 without issue. I use breakfree CLP from a bottle to clean the gun without any issues. The titanium works fine as long as you don’t get too aggressive with cleaning. No extra PITA at all.

 

[smoothshooter]

This is a cut/paste from another forum but illustrates concerns with the titanium cylinders. I believe that the 5" 986 revolver (and 929 models) where intended for competition but maintaining the titanium cylinder requires awareness and can be be a PITA. I would think a traditional cylinder material would serve a (competition intended) revolver that sees a lot of rounds serve it better. I can understand titanium in the 2-1/2" (part time shooter) 986 carry version. I like using wire brushes to clean the cylinders in and out.


According to the Smith & Wessons Owners Manual:
Link for the Modern Smith & Wesson revolvers:

Page: 26:
CAUTION: Revolvers with Titanium-Alloy cylinders

• Titanium alloy cylinders weigh approximately 60% of what a similarly sized stainless steel cylinder weighs and yet is able to withstand the same operating pressures. Care and cleaning of the revolver’s titanium alloy cylinder consists of normal gun cleaning procedures using high quality gun oil and cleaning solvents when necessary. However, under NO circumstances should the cylinder’s chambers (charge holes) or front face be cleaned with an abrasive material such as sand paper, Scotch BriteTM, Crocus Cloth, etc. To do so will disrupt its protective surface layer and greatly reduce the cylinder’s service life because of excessive erosion that will take place while firing and will void your revolver’s warranty.

Page 31:

CAUTION: Some cleaners can cause damage to your firearms. You should avoid prolonged solvent immersion and prolonged ultrasonic cleaning of your firearm. Choice of solvent should be restricted to those products specifically developed for firearms maintenance. Damage to a firearm’s finish may occur if these cautions are ignored. Ammoniated solvents or other strong alkaline solvents, should not be used on any Smith & Wesson firearm.

So does that mean using copper brushes for getting lead deposits out of the chambers is out?

 

[Paul105]

I had over 9,000 rnds (240/260gr at 1,100 -1,150 fps) thru 3 329s, had various other problems but never any with the titanium cylinder. It's been quite some time but the only thing I remember doing was to run a wet patch of CLP thru charge holes and wiped cyl face when they got cruddy. Lubed ratchet and cyl nose religiously. Just my experience.

Paul

 

[Lou_the_welder]

There should be no concerns when it comes to a 929 or 986 in a titanium 9mm cylinder.
In those guns having a bulky steel cylinder is a little overkill . A bulky slower steel cylinder with no added benefits. Those Revolvers in moonclips are a definite plus.
I have always used Mpro7 and plastic/ nylon brushes. And have had no issues with those cylinders on those guns whatsoever. At around 18k rounds on mine. I should say titanium cylinders are perfect on them.

I broke the hand on my 986 , shooting it so much. The only mechanical failure I had between the two guns. It broke around 7 or 8k rounds(?).

So you may break other stuff before the cylinder gives you any issue.

 

[steelslaver]

Ya if your a my guns have to be shiny clean freak, a titanium cylinder or scandium alloy frame isn't for you. I wipe mine off and do the same with my stainless ones. The thin carbon burn is right back the first time you fire it again anyway.

 

[Travis Montana]

I am in the same boat that they are to light for me. A friend of mine purchased a 386 and being a .357 fan I had to shoot it. For me it was not fun to shoot. I definitely like something with some more weight. He wanted it for his CCW and still uses it.

 

[Bullet Bob]

For competition shooters, titanium cylinders have an advantage for a not so obvious reason. Stopping a cylinder in fast double-action shooting puts some amount of strain on the bolt, laws of physics being immutable and all that. Lighter cylinder, less strain.

 

[Venom6]

We understand why titanium is used, we just need to be aware of the other downfalls.

BTW: The 986 cylinder throats are .357 along with the .357 barrel. The reason why the 986 shoots better groups with .358 lead bullets. My little 940 5 shot cylinder measures .355

Ha! Threw the bullsnot flag at first, 8shot; then I pulled out my 986, and sho' 'nuf, a .357" bullet fits snugly into the cylinder throat. Might explain a lot. Thank you!

 

[cmj8591]

So does that mean using copper brushes for getting lead deposits out of the chambers is out?

No problem using bronze brushes for cleaning the chambers and the face of the cylinder. They are not any more abrasive than a nylon one. Stay away from stainless brushes. If you have ever stuck a revolver in a jacket pocket and walked around for a while, you'll know why titanium is a good idea.