Why Won’t People Carry?

S-W4EVER said:
+1. After a career in LE, I'd feel naked without my little 442 on my belt. Besides, I'd probably get involved without thinking too much about it if I saw someone doing something really threatening to others (I get kinda angry at the stupidity).
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This is why I don't do LEOSA. You get a break of a few bucks on a concealed carry license, but you most certainly do NOT get risk management coverage, protection from criminal liability for brandishing, false arrest/imprisonment, agg assault, agg battery, manslaughter, or murder. Even a killing in LE likely will get you three days of admin leave, mandatory 'fit for duty' psych eval, and DAs very rarely indict police for even opaque shoots; the agency picks up all legal bills and any settlements/awards.

Nope. When I carry, it's for me and mine. If LEOSA eventually expands to include liability/legal coverage, I'll reconsider.
 
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Statistically, why carry? It's a pain in the neck for a number of reasons.

Of course, if YOU happen to be one of those statistics, it makes much more sense.

I carry not just for defense but also to help keep me on my toes, with regards to ownership. I endeavor to be ever cognizant of safety, regularly inspect my firearms and give them enough TLC. I have an internal limit, when I perceive I couldn't live with inaction I will commit to the task at hand.

I can't even claim I'd help others, though I hope I have enough fortitude to do the "right" thing.

I paid my money and take my chances. I don't bother with why other people don't.
 
Borderboss said:
Those who think carrying every day is a PITA need to try carrying every day. It becomes second nature. If you only do it rarely, you'll never be fully comfortable with it and probably won't react properly when you need it. Practice makes perfect.
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Exactly. It's just like your wallet, pocket knife, keys and phone. It's part of your pants when you put them on in the morning. Not a big deal, you get used to it. Done it every day since 1985.
 
jcs266 said:
Exactly. It's just like your wallet, pocket knife, keys and phone. It's part of your pants when you put them on in the morning. Not a big deal, you get used to it. Done it every day since 1985.
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Sorry - been there done that from '76 to 2000/2001. To me it's a PITA. And I really like all of my Smiths (can tolerate my wife's Ruger). :)
 
Borderboss said:
Those who think carrying every day is a PITA need to try carrying every day. It becomes second nature. If you only do it rarely, you'll never be fully comfortable with it and probably won't react properly when you need it. Practice makes perfect.
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For me the PITA part is not with physically having the thing on me, (especially since I switched from an Officers ACP to a modern micro compact,) but has more to do with the various rules that are in place about where I can and can't go with the thing on me.

In the part of IL where I live things can be so restrictive that at times it's just easier to leave the gun at home.
 
I would say a lot of people are under the false sense that police will protect them. For the most part police are reactionary, meaning that they will respond to the event as it is occurring or just after. I've been concealed carrying since the early 80's with 4 years law enforcement thrown in the mix and I've never had to draw my weapon but once, and that was on a Pit Bull going after a neighbor. For the purpose of this message string I am referring to carry on the street as a civilian or LEO, and NOT my time in service.
 
A good friend decides about once a year that he needs a CCL. Then he talks himself out of it. He keeps a handgun in the house and practiced with it when ammo was available. He believes that he could shoot an intruder to protect his family, and there are 3 generations of them in the house.

But when he contemplates street crime or an active shooter he thinks he would freeze or hesitate. We've discussed it multiple times and I have come to agree with him. I have stopped encouraging him to pursue the CCL. His mindset is wrong.

He would probably say my mindset about visiting doctors when I don't feel sick is wrong. We are still friends.
 
First, it's called cancelled carry for a reason. When I carry (most of the time away from home) I carry everywhere that does not have some type of detection device to determine if I'm carrying. That means I'm carrying in the bank, the library, the drug stores, and even in the bars. Yes in the bars, because more than 50% of their business is garnered from food sales. Do I worry about the stupid no guns signs on the doors? Not in the least. I'd rather have to explain to the DA why I was carrying in the bank and used my pistol to thwart a person intent on harming the friends in the bank, etc, etc., then have to explain to ST. Peter why I was at the pearly gates. If I was harmed by a bank robber, etc. etc., and I was not carrying they had better hope they have some excellent insurance coverage. I know three people in the bank I use have seen my pistol (at least the muzzle end) and not one has said a thing to me. Go figure.

My .02
 
Llance said:
First, it's called cancelled carry for a reason. When I carry (most of the time away from home) I carry everywhere that does not have some type of detection device to determine if I'm carrying. That means I'm carrying in the bank, the library, the drug stores, and even in the bars. Yes in the bars, because more than 50% of their business is garnered from food sales. Do I worry about the stupid no guns signs on the doors? Not in the least. I'd rather have to explain to the DA why I was carrying in the bank and used my pistol to thwart a person intent on harming the friends in the bank, etc, etc., then have to explain to ST. Peter why I was at the pearly gates. If I was harmed by a bank robber, etc. etc., and I was not carrying they had better hope they have some excellent insurance coverage. I know three people in the bank I use have seen my pistol (at least the muzzle end) and not one has said a thing to me. Go figure.

My .02
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Then you have little experience with felonies, apparently. You won't be anywhere near a DA - it will be police, then eventually an ADA. Your story will be less useful than what the investigators learn from witnesses and security video, for example, that you routinely violate your license conditions by carrying in bars (usually prohibited directly by law) or in places that the property owner prohibits such carry and posts against it. You have no valid license when using it in violation of its restrictions.

An example:

29-19-8. Limitation on license.
A. Nothing in the Concealed Handgun Carry Act shall be construed as allowing a licensee in possession of a valid concealed handgun license to carry a concealed handgun into or on premises where to do so would be in violation of state or federal law. Schools, universities, liquor establishments, and court facilities are specifically mentioned.

And if you use it when outside your license restrictions, an otherwise justifiable killing would be at, least in statute, involuntary manslaughter, which is:

30-2-3 Manslaughter

B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

People need to understand that they should follow the law or get ready to sign their house over to a lawyer.
 
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My state is notorious for routinely rejecting CCW license applications. It's not NY state, which seems to issue to the wealthy and powerful. Hawaii is far more restrictive. NY and Hawaii residents are awaiting decisions from the Supreme Court. As such, the best we can do is wait, and practice handgun safety and accuracy. I believe that one or both states will impose severe penalties on citizens who use a gun for self-defense when one or more shots hit a bystander or threaten a non-combatant. Private businesses will be able to ban all guns from their premises, and the carrier will have to find a place nearby to store his gun. This is not going to be viable in big cities, unless you find an FFL holder who stays open at night. I know a few people who carry concealed weapons in Las Vegas casinos, and ignore house rules. Is this a sign of bravado or stupidity? On top of all the decisions a concealed carrier has to make, they also need to carry insurance from USCCA or similar organization.
There was a novel (Neon Prey) about a fictional U.S. Marshall who was hunting a killer inside of a Vegas mall. Even if you are confronted by an active shooter, how many people could practice shot discipline to avoid discharging their weapon at the wrong time? How many of us are competition shooters? Decisions, decisions.
 
Unfortunately, here in the UK* unlike in Europe all self defence tools are banned in public places . Pepper spray / tasers / batons are even banned from private possession. Guns can only be carried on private property accept for the elites / members of parliament ! CCW permits are not banned but are never issue for the peasants since the 1950s and whilst we can use firearms for self defence we cannot get a permit for that purpose which is unconstitutional under article 7 of the bill of rights 1688 which your 2a is based on !
It's matter of fact that UK gun owners are more proficient with their firearms then the police ! And are more law abiding as well and yet can't be trusted to carry for protection
I have a smith and Wesson custom 686 I practice defensive drills etc I know I would be capable if CCW were ever to be shell issue again

It doesn't help that much of the country Is full of sheep that even didn't want pepper spray legal and even state it would make things worse !
They have this stupid notion that we have nice criminals who refuse to arm up with guns to commit violent indictable offences against the public because the law abiding are banned from carrying anything ! Or that the criminal is some tier one expert who just disarm you or shoot you first
Yes a lot of brits spout this **** ! It's amazing ! UK has one of the highest violent crime rates in Europe just last year a cop was shot dead booking a suspect into the borough lock up - kid with a banned short barrel pistol

Food for thought nearly all of Eastern Europe has CCW on shell issue in fact in check republic not only can you carry pistols but ANY type of firearm that you can conceal and yet they one of the lowest violent crimes rates in Europe
In Switzerland it's not uncommon to see gun owners with rifles slang over their shoulders walking into towns after shooting competitions
If the brits saw that here they would scream like little kids and beg the government for more bans - this from the nation that founded concept of constitutional rights, truly the sun has set on the once greatest empire on earth! rant over



*NI has CCW on a may issue
 
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To answer the op's questions. I think a large percentage of the US population, probably the majority, still put their faith in the "system" to protect them. Speaking for my wife and me, while we hope to never have to use the guns we carry, we carry them whenever legally permitted, because we consider ourselves to be our own first responders.
 
People don't carry because they don't want to. It's the same reason many people don't eat right and exercise.

Either choice might result in someone dying earlier than they would other wise, the latter being much more likely than the former.
 
biku324 said:
This is why I don't do LEOSA. You get a break of a few bucks on a concealed carry license, but you most certainly do NOT get risk management coverage, protection from criminal liability for brandishing, false arrest/imprisonment, agg assault, agg battery, manslaughter, or murder. Even a killing in LE likely will get you three days of admin leave, mandatory 'fit for duty' psych eval, and DAs very rarely indict police for even opaque shoots; the agency picks up all legal bills and any settlements/awards.

Nope. When I carry, it's for me and mine. If LEOSA eventually expands to include liability/legal coverage, I'll reconsider.
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I haven't done LEOSA since I retired, but I've had a CWP/CPL all my adult life. The commission I have from the State is valid until I die (in this state) but I still like having a permit signed by the County Sheriff. I don't have much drama in my life but I doubt I would be able to put up with watching an innocent person being murdered either.
 
Situations may vary

I bought my first handgun in 2019, when all the **** started happening. It is not that I didn't believe in guns, I firmly support and defend the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Before I met my wife, I did quite a bit of moving. My Dad put in his 20 in the US Navy and he was a Vietnam Vet. He believed in the 2nd and had no problems with guns. He was raised in a family of 11 kids, they were poor, and he did a lot of hunting. However, we did a lot of moving, and went overseas a couple of times, so firearms weren't wise at the time. Then I joined the Navy, put in 3 years and got out. I moved from my Duty Station in San Diego, CA to Maryland, to Ohio, down here to Florida. So, guns weren't something that I was that interested in, didn't have a need for them, and didn't want the hassle of dealing with them with my constant moving.



My wife and I got our CCW in 2019. My wife doesn't want to carry, but wants it just in case. I conceal carry mostly on my days off, as most companies prohibit weapons on premises. I do have a gun safe that is portable for my handgun when I need it. As things have gotten more out of hand, I have opted to have it with me in the vehicle when I can. The work I do is physical, with a lot of bending, stooping, crawling and lifting. Too much for carrying all day, even if they allowed it. So yes, circumstances dictate when and where you can carry. It is not worth losing my job over, as I work for a small company. It is not worth losing my job over and having the possible record/black mark if I were to get fired for it.



For those of you who choose to risk it at work, that is your decision/choice. It sucks that this is what it has come down to, but it is what it is, for now. I always carry on the days off when my wife and I go anywhere. The safe goes with us, just in case we go someplace that doesn't allow them/is on the "thou shall not" list or we visit family who have small children and may not be comfortable with my carrying in their house. While I am sure they wouldn't have a problem with it per say, I do it more out of respect for them and my wife. That is just how I was raised.
 
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The only "right" answer is the one that's right for you.


All other opinions are simply that - opinions.


I carry - unless doing so will get me locked up.


But to each his or her own.
 
Save Ferrous! said:
Heart disease: 696,962
Cancer: 602,350
COVID-19: 350,831
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 200,955
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 160,264
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 152,657
Alzheimer's disease: 134,242
Diabetes: 102,188
Influenza and pneumonia: 53,544
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 52,547

All of these have preventative measures, none of which are carrying a gun. So carry if you want, but make sure that you are eating right, exercising, getting immunized, reading, having rich social interactions, avoiding tobacco and booze before you worry about being armed.

I'm always a bit amazed by the people that are so concerned with their "safety" that they live out in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming with limited social interaction or activities. Then they die early of either disease, senility or suicide.

It is incredibly easy in most places to avoid areas where you are likely to be the victim of crime. The notion that people are somehow taking risks by not carrying is just a strange fixation.
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Indeed. It's unpopular to say so, but carrying a firearm is merely another hobby for nearly all folks.
 
Save Ferrous! said:
Heart disease: 696,962
Cancer: 602,350
COVID-19: 350,831
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 200,955
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 160,264
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 152,657
Alzheimer's disease: 134,242
Diabetes: 102,188
Influenza and pneumonia: 53,544
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 52,547

All of these have preventative measures, none of which are carrying a gun. So carry if you want, but make sure that you are eating right, exercising, getting immunized, reading, having rich social interactions, avoiding tobacco and booze before you worry about being armed.

I'm always a bit amazed by the people that are so concerned with their "safety" that they live out in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming with limited social interaction or activities. Then they die early of either disease, senility or suicide.

It is incredibly easy in most places to avoid areas where you are likely to be the victim of crime. The notion that people are somehow taking risks by not carrying is just a strange fixation.
Click to expand...

That opinion won't be a popular one here, but that's a good post and you're right.
 
USMCshooter said:
Lived in N. Illinois for 25 years. CCW last two years - yep, PITA. God I love living in FL!
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Most of Illinois is not like the Chicago area. In fact, it's pretty normal. I hear soccer-mom type women talking about carrying.
I also hear horror stories about traffic stops and the cops in Chicago giving people a hard time when they are legally carrying. Our county DA has come out as pro-gun numerous times. My county is a gun sanctuary county.
 
I have carried a gun for 47 years…

…almost every day of my life since the start of my professional LEO career and now in my retirement. It is routine for me and not an encumbrance whatsoever.

That said, I do not carry in certain places…some by choice…some where prohibited. e.g. Las Vegas and Key West in America and in foreign countries.

I do not conduct my daily activities any differently when carrying versus when not carrying. But since I have toted a gun for almost 2/3 of my entire life I am rather accustomed to it. :)

The vast majority of my friends do not carry; many have zero idea that I do. Concealed carry is easy.

Be safe.
 
Save Ferrous! said:
Heart disease: 696,962
Cancer: 602,350
COVID-19: 350,831
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 200,955
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 160,264
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 152,657
Alzheimer's disease: 134,242
Diabetes: 102,188
Influenza and pneumonia: 53,544
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 52,547

All of these have preventative measures, none of which are carrying a gun. So carry if you want, but make sure that you are eating right, exercising, getting immunized, reading, having rich social interactions, avoiding tobacco and booze before you worry about being armed.

I'm always a bit amazed by the people that are so concerned with their "safety" that they live out in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming with limited social interaction or activities. Then they die early of either disease, senility or suicide.

It is incredibly easy in most places to avoid areas where you are likely to be the victim of crime. The notion that people are somehow taking risks by not carrying is just a strange fixation.
Click to expand...

I find it funny when someone overweight carries for their safety but refuses to diet or go to the gym. I need to get back under 200 lbs (215 currently at 6´ 2¨) Heart disease in my family is far more likely to get me than a criminal. Even so, I think one can do BOTH. Practice a healthy lifestyle, AND carry when I am able.
 
All these folks who don't carry for various reasons; should in my opinion, be convinced to at least carry mace or pepper spray with them. In a purse, fanny pack, pocket or where ever . I certainly respect people who are against firearms or reluctant to go that far, but with increasing violent crime in this country, it would be prudent if they were convinced. Case in point; my wife ( 74 and still very active ) had to be "encouraged" to carry pepper spray. Which she does now, whenever she's out. She's not anti-gun, but was just afraid to make that leap.
 
Ohio-Don said:
To answer the op's questions. I think a large percentage of the US population, probably the majority, still put their faith in the "system" to protect them. Speaking for my wife and me, while we hope to never have to use the guns we carry, we carry them whenever legally permitted, because we consider ourselves to be our own first responders.
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THIS THIS THIS

When something is going down, it's going down at that moment in time, and in that time frame, nary a cop can be found until he or she responds to the call, responding to the call implies something to occur in the FUTURE. To protect you and yours falls on YOU.
 
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