Why?

[carlosmojoli]

You may buy 9 mm Luger, 357 SIG and 9 x 23 Winchester ammo with higher speed than shown in the books?
Old books listed higher velocities with Blue Dot?
Are actual guns unsafe for the old cartridges?

 

[Culina]

Its difficult to say. I guess if everyone published their test proceedures and listed the equipment used, one could compare apples to apples. From what I have observed, factory ammo will have a higher published velocity than will actually be observed in the field. This can be accomplished by using longer non vented barrels than would be typically available.

 

[Rule3]

Lots of tests even today are done with long test barrels and not actual guns. You need to look at the testing parameters. a bullet out of a 8" test barrel is of course going to be more fps than a actual 2" snub nose.

Some of the older data used higher powder charges. Formulations and different lots of powder will yield different results.

 

[Alk8944]

You may buy 9 mm Luger, 357 SIG and 9 x 23 Winchester ammo with higher speed than shown in the books?
Old books listed higher velocities with Blue Dot?
Are actual guns unsafe for the old cartridges?

I would seriously question your remark when it comes to .357 Sig and 9x23 Winchester. Both of these are quite high-intensity cartridges, and bettering factory performance, or even actually equaling it, is difficult or even dangerous without pressure testing equipment.

What are you basing the "higher speed" question on, published data for factory ammunition? Most factory velocity data is very optimistic to say the least.

Likewise, most data shown in loading manuals does not specify the test conditions, and when ammunition is loaded using their data, and then chronographed in an actual gun, you will usually find the velocity figures claimed are also quite optimistic, to say the least.

Are you familiar with the term "Advertising hype"?

Yes, actual guns, in good mechanical condition, are safe with factory ammunition, and, usually, any published reloading data for the cartridge the gun was originally chambered for.

 

[carlosmojoli]

Well, it seems to be that we must accept as "optimistic" a no real speed listed by a cartridge company, because we do not know the barrel lenght used and special conditions of the load. My question was simple: When you read the story of the cartridge it´s said that the normal speed of a 124 grains bullet launched by a .357 SIG cartridge is of 1.450 feet per second. When you seek the load for that speed and bullet.... there is no load. Only 1.200 fps and so. That was all. (Same with 9 x 23 Win ..and more difficult than .357 SIG)

 

[Frank237]

The ammo manufacturers also have available various canister powders NOT available to the general public...Custom blended for specific cartridges possibly?

I've used AAC #9 in the .357 SIG with 124 gr MT Gold bullets and have crono'd at 1400+ fps. Forget the load as this was several yrs back. Got it from the book...apparently safe as it was shot in dozens of guns with zero issues ever reported.

FN in MT

 

[OKFC05]

A chronograph provides hours of entertainment and a cheap education.
When you fire the factory ammunitiion in YOUR gun and then fire your handloads right after in your gun, it is a strong dose of reality, and often a surprise.

 

[41 fan]

No two guns will give the same velocity with a given load. If you will look on page 771 of the number 14 Speer reloading manual, you will see three six inch model 19s with over 200 fps difference between them. The only way to determine what velocity any load will make from any gun is to test that gun and load with a chronograph. I started out with a Custom Chronograph 25 to 30 years ago and now use an Ohler 35.
My pet peeve with reloading articles is in many instances, the author will not list the OAL. This is especially important with semi auto cartridges. Also, some people substitute one bullet of the same weight as another.
That can reult in changes in pressure, which will affect the velocity. Dean

 

[fredj338]

A chronograph provides hours of entertainment and a cheap education.
When you fire the factory ammunitiion in YOUR gun and then fire your handloads right after in your gun, it is a strong dose of reality, and often a surprise.

^^^THIS^^^
It's to the ammo manuf advantage to exagerate their ammo's performance. Yes, a chronograph is a serious dose of reality. Same for handloading data in most books. Read the test platform info. Real gun or Univ receiver? Sure it matters. Even guns of identical bbl length can vary as much as 150fps, no two bbls are identical.

 

[carlosmojoli]

Thank you to all of you

I learned a lot due to your answers, specially one: I never checked the speed of factory loads, and there are some canister powders unavailable for the public used by factories. Thank you Chip.

 

[fredj338]

I learned a lot due to your answers, specially one: I never checked the speed of factory loads, and there are some canister powders unavailable for the public used by factories. Thank you Chip.

Most factory ammo does NOT use commercially available canister powders. You can get close or duplicate most vel/recoil levels though using many available powders.