Will a .455 Webley Cartridge fire in a 1917?

[Dump1567]

I picked-up this Commercial 1917 (ser # 177939) from a local shop recently. Based on my research here, I'm guessing it dates to the mid 1920's? The finish is rough, but the action seems excellent & tight. Grips and all other numbers match. Someone bubba'd the front sight.

I noticed a Fiocchi .455 Webley MkII cartridge will fit in the cylinder. But will it fire? I'm assuming the firing pin might be too short? I didn't really plan to try it, just wondering.

Thanks.

 

[handejector]

Go to range.
Put on muffs and glasses.
Insert cartridge.
Point downrange.
Cock hammer.
Pull trigger.
Listen for "BANG!".



Seriously, as you say, the pin might be too short. Or, it might not. Or, if the cartridge is not fully seated, it might fire.
However, headspace will be excessive, and I will expect a bulged OR blown primer.
I'm known to be dumb enough to try such things, but smart enough to have my arm on the other side of a large tree, probably wearing a glove and long sleeves.....
BUT I am not advocating that anyone else should be as dumb as me.

 

[merl67]

I am in the if it wasn't chambered in that round why risk it camp, makes no sense to me. Kinda like dropping a 38 super into my Colt 1900 38 rimless it will chamber and it will fire it but I would probably have the slide stuck in my skull. That front sight would be an easy fix for a skilled tig welder.

 

[ddixie884]

Under certain conditions, Yes. Why would you want to when .455s are usually unobtainium and .45acp is very common and normally easily obtained.

 

[RWPBR]

455 webley is still available online, 45 ACP isn't. You can find spacers online that will allow you to successfully fire 455 Webley. Pressure is much lower than 45 ACP so no worries there.

 

[Dump1567]

I just figured both these cartridges were available during WWI & if G.I.'s ever had to make due with the .455 in there 1917's?

 

[DWalt]

I have little doubt that firing a .455 in a .45 ACP chamber would be uneventful. The worst case would be a misfire from inadequate firing pin contact with the primer due to short headspace resulting from the .455's thin rim. Sort of like firing a .32 ACP in a .32 Long chamber. Most of the time it will fire, but sometimes not.

 

[Hondo44]

The Firing pins were overly long in that period for reliable ignition I suppose. So based on a couple of experiments Webley Mk-1 (but not Mk-II) will fire most times if not all. Only Mk-I because they don't chamber fully in ACP chambers.


Primers backing out of the case is normal on all center fire cartridges when fired, then the case slams against the recoil shield, and the primer is reset back into the primer pocket. I can't imagine any negative issues from that.

However, you'll be driving a .455 cal bullet down a .451 groove diameter barrel. Whatever increased pressure there may be won't be a problem. And you might even get great groups at first, but also severe leading is likely.

So as you said, not that you want to do it, it's just interesting to know!

Also as handejector posted, the simple fix for the sight is micro welding. There's a couple professionals who specialize in micro welding repairs for guns and they'll do the clean-up and reshaping of the sight for very reasonable cost. Plus there's shipping charges. But any decent tig welder can do the welding if you can do the clean-up and reshaping.

 

[StrawHat]

Before I would mess with the front sight, I would be inclined to shoot it a bunch to see if whoever did the alteration had a reason for it. Those thin blades were hard to see. It might be an improvement.

The change on my 1950 Military certainly was.

Kevin

 

[glowe]

Only reliable way to shoot that caliber in a 45ACP revolver is to hold the gun vertically and shoot straight up!!

The answer is in the attached picture of a 45ACP gun and a 455 case. The recoil shield to cylinder gap on my 45ACPs average .125" and .063" on my 455s. Nor familiar with spacers for this use, but would like to see what it looks like?

 

[Dump1567]

Only reliable way to shoot that caliber in a 45ACP revolver is to hold the gun vertically and shoot straight up!!

The answer is in the attached picture of a 45ACP gun and a 455 case. The recoil shield to cylinder gap on my 45ACPs average .125" and .063" on my 455s. Nor familiar with spacers for this use, but would like to see what it looks like?

I tried that with mine, and the firing pin seemed to contact the primer.

As far as the front sight, I'll just leave it. This thing is pretty rough and will just be used as a shooter. I really just bought it because I wanted an old N frame. I may letter it just to find the history.

I originally went into the shop looking for a S&W .455 they had a week prior. But when I got there, it was gone. But this 1917 was there. So why not? I still have plenty of moon & 1/2 moon clips from my last 1917 & Model 22 I sold off.

 

[RWPBR]

This will allow you to shoot 455 Webley reliably:
Untitled Document

If you can use moon clips you can use this.

 

[Hondo44]

However at $50 per, there's a MUCH cheaper alternative. A modified moon clip so the shells slip thru instead of clipping to the cartridges works as well.
Not needed for Mk-I because they don't chamber fully in ACP chambers.

Also works very well to shoot the 45 Cowboy Special and 45 S&W Special, basically the same length, in ACP chambered cyls.

 

[deadin]

My, My... Those shims have really gotten expensive.....

About 4 years ago I made up a prototype jig to make some of these.
(See below....)


Unfortunately it only works with fiber paper or Delrin. I couldn't find a source for steel of the right thickness nor do I have a way to fabricate it. Even if I could, I would have to make the new jig from steel. The fiber paper and delrin break easily and don't last very long.

 

[RWPBR]

Mashburn also has 45 auto rim in stock on Broke Gunner.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

.45 Auto Rim?
45 Auto Rim Ammo - Pistol Ammunition for Sale
Geoff
Who has sufficient stocks..and I feel smug.