US Army 1917 marked in .455 identification help

[LukasII]

Howdy folks!

I just picked up a 1917 in .455. It's in rough but serviceable exterior condition with good interior parts and bore. Most importantly, good lockup and timing.

I did some research on the forum before posting, but this particular pistol isn't anything I've seen yet, and would love to know this groups opinion on the provenance of this weapon. I apologize if I missed something obvious that has been noted in this forum before.

The details (pictures also attached):
- Marked "US ARMY MODEL 1917" on the butt.
Below that, there is "No 986".
- On the barrel, it's marked "Smith & Wesson .455."
- Left side top corner of the receiver there is a "GHS" marking.
- The hammer? Is concentrically grooved.
- The inside of the yoke is marked "3089" with a large S above the numbers.
- The cylinder face has what appears to be british proof markings. Specifically, crossed frags/Pennants, with the letters DPC integrated into the marking and a crown at the top of the pennants. Yes, it does read DPC, not BPC.
- The front sight appears to be something commercial with an old golden square added for better visibility.
- Grips are checkered walnut with a deep gold S&W logo imbedded.

There are no other markings on the gun it appears.
The collection of markings, and lack there of, coupled with the US ARMY 1917 markings, 455 chambering, and low serial number makes me think this was an early commercial gun, or something perhaps converted to .455 at a later date?

Figured it was interesting enough to share and ask for help. Hope you guys find it interesting!

 

[steelslaver]

Not a stock front sight and I suspect a barrel and cylinder replacement. I downloaded the picture of cylinder and blew it up and it looks like the one spot has a number starting with a 46 and ending with a 0 over stamped by proof mark How about on bottom of barrel on flat above ejector rod?

It also looks like it has slight recesses and no step in chambers or none until way into chambers so it may have been set up to fire 45 colts.
Look at bottom left markings and at chambers in this blown up copy

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

I agree with steelslaver above. You have a very early 1917 that has had a .455 barrel and cylinder swapped into it. The cylinder has been re-chambered to .45 Colt. The grips may be numbered to the barrel, as they are also correct for a .455 revolver.

While it should be a good shooter, using .454" or larger bullets, it is a shame that such an early 1917 was used. It has the grooved hammer, but the dished topped smooth grips are gone.

 

[deadin]

Gunsmith Special...(Parts bin put-to-gether)


Who was it that did all of the WW2 BSR model conversions from England?
Looks like this one was done by his father or grandfather...

 

[Absalom]

Canadian-perpetrated in some way. At the least that‘s where the cylinder was.

DCP with crossed pennants is the Dominion of Canada Proof.

That‘s also where a .455 conversion would make sense.

 

[LukasII]

Appreciate all the info!

Sounds like it could be a couple things, but for sure it as a Canadian cylinder, and the canadians were known to convert these over to 45LC?

Is it possible this was a government or state conversion of some kind, or is it for sure a gunsmith special? If so, considering the low serial number, what would you guys value it at?

I did some research on 1917s before buying it, but clearly not enough. I knew it was odd but hoped it was some official configuration of some kind. I paid $1000 all together for this pistol, a nicely refinished Type 26 revolver, and another Smith, 1905 4th variation, 38 special in good condition. Hopefully I didnt do too bad.

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum!

An important piece of the puzzle at this point is the serial # on the bottom of the barrel. And the penciled serial # on the back of the right side grip. You'll need daylight to see it.

 

[LukasII]

Welcome to the forum!

An important piece of the puzzle at this point is the serial # on the bottom of the barrel. And the penciled serial # on the back of the right side grip. You'll need daylight to see it.

Ah! See attached pics. On the barrel flat, it has "B-F 31190" as well as crossed pennants, DPC markings. So a Canadian barrel as well, along with a Canadian cylinder, neat! Oh, the cylinder does have a number on the face of it as another commenter brought up. Under or over the DPC proof marking, the number 40170 appears.

Also attached are pics of the yoke and inside frame. The receiver has a stylized S with 3089 on it, and the yoke has a matching number. Assembly numbers Im assuming.

unfortunately there doesnt appear to be any kind of numbers under the grips on the frame, or on underside of the grips themselves. I checked thoroughly under various lighting and couldnt see anything.

 

[steelslaver]

The conversion to 45 colt and maybe even the cylinder and barrel swap may have been done after the parts were stamped on other guns. Hard to know for sure. The 45 colt was used by Some of the Canadian Mounties and about 700 S&W 45 Colt revolvers were sent to Canada. "By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, presumed for the RCMP" [H of S&W, pg. 203]. The parts on those factory guns would all match and the slight recesses would not have occurred. I am a S&W 45 colt fan and would love to have one of those 724

When and by whom yours was converted???? Could be anyone. With a proper reamer it would not take long even turning reamer by hand. Not a factory conversion I am sure. Some one had a 1917 and wanted a 45 colt. An ACP cylinder makes a poor conversion for that. Don't know why you would change the barrel though.

BTW converted in such a manner it will still fire 455 rounds as their rims though thinner than the 45 colt are also wider and will span recesses.

Marks besides the proof in yoke cut are assembly numbers and fitters marks. The number 31190 on underside of barrel is probably the serial number of the barrel's original frame. Same goes for cylinder. Interesting that barrel and cylinder came from different guns. Such parts used to be available though several sources.

A $1000 for the 3 guns would be a decent deal.

 

[Muley Gil]

Appreciate all the info!

Sounds like it could be a couple things, but for sure it as a Canadian cylinder, and the canadians were known to convert these over to 45LC?

Is it possible this was a government or state conversion of some kind, or is it for sure a gunsmith special? If so, considering the low serial number, what would you guys value it at?

I did some research on 1917s before buying it, but clearly not enough. I knew it was odd but hoped it was some official configuration of some kind. I paid $1000 all together for this pistol, a nicely refinished Type 26 revolver, and another Smith, 1905 4th variation, 38 special in good condition. Hopefully I didnt do too bad.

You basically got the Japanese revolver for free. Your .455 to .45 Colt/1917 should be a good shooter.

 

[margethatcher]

I just bought what was purpported to be a 1917, but is in fact a .455? All the numbers match, with Canadian proofs, but marked .45 colt on the barrell. Theres a chance it was a shaved recoil shield special, but it doesn't seem to, (at least my non trained eye) modified. Its serial number is within a couple hundred of the one mentioned in the third,S@W book. As soon as I can get my self capable of adding pictures I hope to start a thread.

 

[Absalom]

"By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, presumed for the RCMP" [H of S&W, pg. 203]...

The problem with that presumption is that the RCMP did not exist in 1916

However, while the North West Mounted Police (Western Canada) carried the Colt New Service in .455, the Dominion Police (Eastern Canada) carried the same gun in .45 Colt; they may have received those 724.

After both were merged into the RCMP in 1920, only .45 Colt guns were purchased from then on, but the .455 remained in service too.

Canadian military small arms do include S&W 2nd Model HE‘s converted from .44 to .455, presumably by the military, after 1915.

Whether the OP‘s gun was some official armorer‘s project or a gunsmith special seems impossible to determine.