S&W triple lock target 455 webley?

[rct269]

The GOOD NEWS is there's a SLOT for the flange-----and the flange nut!!!!

As to the milling work being left in the white, another entity with a milling machine (THE King Gunsight Company) once did a King Super Target Triple
Lock that used to live here (along with everything else that used to live here), and everything the mill touched was also left in the white.

That's not the end of the world------not even close!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[handejector]

The channel for the rear sight does not contain bluing. If the work was factory, it would be blued. The underside of the rear sight is more crudely milled than others I have seen. And it lacks a serial number. For these three reasons, it can be proved the work was not factory. But, very well done, nonetheless.

I am not sure we can say positively that the Factory would not machine the groove without rebluing a gun. None of the raw metal shows, and I am not sure they would demand a refinish on a pristine gun.
I have been told there was a time when folks could actually walk in and have some service work done while they waited, or drop off a gun and pick it up later. If the Factory milled a gun in the Service Dept and was not refinishing it, there would be no need to number the sight- one guy is likely doing the whole job and none of the parts are leaving his control. As far as the bottom of the leaf being "crudely milled", I have owned several rear sights that were comparable.
Whoever did it did some fine work on blending the front end of the leaf without polishing it on the gun---

This is also some fine work---

The big anomaly for me is how the front sight base was split all the way through instead of machining the normal slot which is blind on the front and rear of the base. However, we don't know if that was done later to replace some front sight the owner had grown to dislike and some gunsmith that did not do the original conversion did that. Target shooters were prone to tinker, seeking a better way-----

So, I can't really say who did it. I think it shows a great deal of talent and skill.

 

[rct269]

I don't recall these things concerning the records of service held by the SWHF because I never had a gun that was returned for service (aside from two I returned), but I'm thinking they have (some) service records from 1920 onward to some point. This work was clearly done sometime after the early 30's--------and likely before WWII; and we have at least a family name to possibly aid SWHF in their search. SO--------let me suggest contact with SWHF after you get the letter on the gun-----and see what's what.

I'm thinking there's a very nominal charge, perhaps no charge, for the search---and a very small charge for copies of anything they find. I've had them do a search on several guns. The material they found proved to be frosting on the cake!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[SS336]

Very cool triple lock!
I like the owners modification whether done by the factory or not. I know that a collector’s viewpoint is different than mine but it was beautifully done and very useful.
Today we look at things through a different lens then back in the day. Back then people modified their guns for their use. They didn’t know 80+ years later people would be collecting them.
It, to me, almost adds value to it because of its unique history and personalization. The original owner was a very classy gentleman, can’t wait to see the letter and what ever else can be found on this special TL.

 

[StrawHat]

I like modified revolvers and have more than a few. It means the factory did not provide what the owner wanted. Sometimes, a shortened barrel, often an altered sight. Whatever, it makes that revolver special and unique.

Kevin

 

[glowe]

Back to the gun. I just ran across an article titled "The Shapleigh Hardware Mystery" by T.J. Muffin in the SWCA Journal Vol. 49 - No. 1, Spring 2015. It was about a 455 TL #15143, which was shipped to Shapleigh. It was part of the large shipment of dozens of guns on December 29, 1917. I am confident that all were sent as commercial guns to the distributor in St. Louis, MO, but no Shapleigh records remain and so therefore the mystery. As Lee stated, these guns were made up from parts available and all were TLs. Serial, but not all mentioned lanyard rings according the the SWCA database entries.

There were a few possibilities discussed, but all options led to being unlikely that Shapleigh would have ordered them all without a known buyer. That buyer seemed most likely to have been Royal Canadian Police, since 455 ammunition is readily available in Canada and with WWI, arms would be tough to come by in North America. Also, it was most unlikely that they were sold to US buyers since 455 ammunition was almost non-existent in the US at that time and not until a large amount of these revolvers were brought home by departing US military personnel after WWII did US manufacturers make supplies of this caliber. Muffin stated that these guns would be worth $2000 in 2015 dollars. If 50 were sold, that is $100,000 and another reason why the store would not have paid that much for guns without a customer already lined up for all of them.

Unfortunately, T.J. was unable to trace the guns from Shapleigh to anywhere, so best guess remains Canada buyers. One other mystery is that the company was somehow able to sell this many 455s to Shapleigh with the US Government in charge of production in Springfield during the war, concentrating on British guns and the US Model 1917??

 

[nicfarion]

* GOT AN UPDATE*
Hey everyone just thought I’d update y’all, got the letter and it did ship as a normal military triple lock no factory return for sights or what not but a new to me deliverer. W.B. Daton & Sons. Never heard of them before so if anyone has please chime in but marked for export definitely explains how it got back to Canada. So at least it made it to Canada post WW1 so might actually have been carried by the gentleman in the letter I got with it. Cool either way. Any info is greatly appreciated as always everyone! Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StrawHat]

Very interesting! Thank you for sharing.

Kevin

 

[glowe]

Not much out there except this interesting tidbit:

Since the mid 1800’s, the Dalton family has been operating businesses in Eastern Ontario. In that time, they have evolved from being a wholesale distributor of hardware products to the current entity, focused on electrical, automation, lighting and data communication market segments.

In 1887, W B Dalton started Dalton and Strange, a wholesale distributor of hardware products. The three-storey brick building sold shelf and heavy hardware, farm implements, tools, cutlery, brass , tin, granite, iron, and sporting goods, and often delivered product to independent hardware stores with horse and buggy.

In 1977, John Dalton started Daltco Electric, specializing in electrical supplies and automation products. In 1997, John’s son Peter joined the company and subsequently took over its management. Under Peter’s leadership Daltco Electric has grown to become a leader in products and service for the Ontario market, through its 3 locations in Ottawa, Brockville and Kingston.

I believe the 3 story building is located in Kingston, Ontario.

 

[Hondo44]

This 455 TL in that serial range is from the last batch produced at the end of the British contract. They were “clean up guns”; assembled from parts on hand even though the 455 2nd Model had been in full production at that time. Some found their way into the war and many were dumped into the civilian market via Shapliegh hardware in St. Louis and others.

 

[glowe]

BYW, i see your letter arrived more crumpled than my last one that arrived yesterday. It had only a few minor creases thanks to the Postman that wrapped it around the rest of the mail complete with a complimentary rubber band!!