red14
US Veteran
It takes more than 'just following orders' to be a good soldier. It sounds like you ARE a good American. Ultimately, we will all be judged, alone.
Will you collect collet the Guns from the public?
- Thread starter Sunfang
- Start date
It takes more than 'just following orders' to be a good soldier. It sounds like you ARE a good American. Ultimately, we will all be judged, alone.
pps
Member
The poster who said this will happen over a long period of time was right. By the time public ownership of firearms is actualy prohibited, few will own guns anyway.
More and more news storys and Govt. studys will show the danger of unresticted firearms ownership. More 'reasonable restrictions' will be added. People will come to understand civillians haveing guns is just umm...not normal. And a terrible hassle to own. What with restrictions on stoarge, registration, licences, taxs, permits, liability ins, etc.
No police, military, UN advisors, or Obama youth, will need to go around forceibly takeing guns. The few people who still even have 'Dads damned old gun' in the attic will be more then happy if SOMEONE will come safely remove it.
Indoctrination will began in school. (it has already really) Gun owners 15 - 20 yrs in the future will be regarded much like smokers today. When the bann finaly comes only a very few anti-social sickos will mind at all. Most will ask themselves "why didn't we outlaw that nasty, dangerous, nonsense yrs ago?"
That is so much simpler and easier then to try and force people to do something large numbers don't agree with.
More and more news storys and Govt. studys will show the danger of unresticted firearms ownership. More 'reasonable restrictions' will be added. People will come to understand civillians haveing guns is just umm...not normal. And a terrible hassle to own. What with restrictions on stoarge, registration, licences, taxs, permits, liability ins, etc.
No police, military, UN advisors, or Obama youth, will need to go around forceibly takeing guns. The few people who still even have 'Dads damned old gun' in the attic will be more then happy if SOMEONE will come safely remove it.
Indoctrination will began in school. (it has already really) Gun owners 15 - 20 yrs in the future will be regarded much like smokers today. When the bann finaly comes only a very few anti-social sickos will mind at all. Most will ask themselves "why didn't we outlaw that nasty, dangerous, nonsense yrs ago?"
That is so much simpler and easier then to try and force people to do something large numbers don't agree with.
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Grayfox
US Veteran
Its not the individual LEO or soldier that you need to be concerned with. The decission to confiscate or not will actually lie with the commanders of each unit. They are the ones who will have to make the stand and take the heat. Their men will follow whatever decission they make.
Let us pray they aren't political appointees.
Let us pray they aren't political appointees.
7.62foryou
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straightshooter1
US Veteran
I posted way earlier in this thread about the way this may come about.
But, I don't think it's going to happen soon. I don't think Obama will try it even if he is reelected for another four years.
It will take time. And, it will be in increments.
I won't be here, and, I dare say, many of you won't either.
But, in twenty or thirty years or maybe forty, using incremental incursions, guns and shooters will be extinct UNLESS we fight every attack on our rights NOW.
Look, I don't have an "Assault Weapon." I've had a lot of the black rifles and had several made into really accurate match rifles (before you could just buy one that good over the counter).
But, I'm not into that type of shooting anymore.
I don't have a 50 BMG rifle, either. I have shot one, but it's not what I like to do.
So, I suppose, banning AWs and 50s won't be a big deal to me personally.
BUT, it will be a big deal down the road for me and others. How long before they next want me to turn in or ban from possession my Glock Hi-caps?
Or, the two semi-auto Beretta Trap guns my wife and I have?
Then "sniper rifles" like my '03 Springfields, my 1917s, even my Krags?
And my Sears 30'06 (a post 64 Model 70 Winchester) with its scope will shoot little, bitty, fingernail-sized groups at 100 yards. Who NEEDS one of those to kill a deer?
The trap club I shoot at has a lot of folks who don't care about Assault Weapons ("Who needs those?") so my mission, every opportunity I have, is to remind them that it's just a few steps from those guns to taking or banning some of their own guns.
The time to be concerned is now.
And, join the NRA if you haven't.
Bob
But, I don't think it's going to happen soon. I don't think Obama will try it even if he is reelected for another four years.
It will take time. And, it will be in increments.
I won't be here, and, I dare say, many of you won't either.
But, in twenty or thirty years or maybe forty, using incremental incursions, guns and shooters will be extinct UNLESS we fight every attack on our rights NOW.
Look, I don't have an "Assault Weapon." I've had a lot of the black rifles and had several made into really accurate match rifles (before you could just buy one that good over the counter).
But, I'm not into that type of shooting anymore.
I don't have a 50 BMG rifle, either. I have shot one, but it's not what I like to do.
So, I suppose, banning AWs and 50s won't be a big deal to me personally.
BUT, it will be a big deal down the road for me and others. How long before they next want me to turn in or ban from possession my Glock Hi-caps?
Or, the two semi-auto Beretta Trap guns my wife and I have?
Then "sniper rifles" like my '03 Springfields, my 1917s, even my Krags?
And my Sears 30'06 (a post 64 Model 70 Winchester) with its scope will shoot little, bitty, fingernail-sized groups at 100 yards. Who NEEDS one of those to kill a deer?
The trap club I shoot at has a lot of folks who don't care about Assault Weapons ("Who needs those?") so my mission, every opportunity I have, is to remind them that it's just a few steps from those guns to taking or banning some of their own guns.
The time to be concerned is now.
And, join the NRA if you haven't.
Bob
red14
US Veteran
""it's just a few steps from those guns to taking or banning some of their own guns.
The time to be concerned is now.""
So true, it started innocent in Cal. Look how it is now!
The time to be concerned is now.""
So true, it started innocent in Cal. Look how it is now!
NFrameFred
Member
A lot of folks pay lip service to it, but I wonder how many act on it and really think about what it means to hear "the youth of today are our future", particularly when it comes to this issue.
How many of you have grandchildren or children that would rather sit in front of a Play Station than go target shooting ? How many make the effort to teach the youth around them the lessons of history, or do you depend on the public school system ? (When my youngest was in high school a few years ago her history book had two pages [TWO PAGES !] on WWII, but a whole chapter on Martin Luther King )
Indeed, the fact is that fewer young people grow up as a lot of us did where you could go out behind the house and shoot your .22 or have a good portion of your recreation outdoors doing something that didn't involve organized sports. And they're being indoctrinated by television and the school system to see guns as something they shouldn't be interested in. These kids will be the teachers and the lawyers (which will be the politicians !) and policy makers and with no positive reinforcement around guns growing up, fewer and fewer folks will see the need. The "gang" and "crime" problems will continue to grow and then instill more fear in the uninitiated and those who do still own firearms will be even more ostracized and marginalized.
The fact that there are some 60 million gun owners and only around 4 million NRA members is very telling about the human nature side of things. Weed out the cheap skates who don't want to pay the dues and the whiners who cry because the NRA didn't fall on their sword for their per peeve and that still leaves a majority who just don't see the need to "get worked up over it".
Another two or three generations and we will see the results, just as surely as we see the results today from the brain-dead attitudes of the 1960's. The Left realized then that they had to send young people indoctrinated with their beliefs into teaching, law, and print and broadcast journalism. That's where the battlefield is and where it will be won or lost.
When it comes time to come for the guns, there won't be enough left who see the need to make a difference at the rate it's going.
How many of you have grandchildren or children that would rather sit in front of a Play Station than go target shooting ? How many make the effort to teach the youth around them the lessons of history, or do you depend on the public school system ? (When my youngest was in high school a few years ago her history book had two pages [TWO PAGES !] on WWII, but a whole chapter on Martin Luther King )
Indeed, the fact is that fewer young people grow up as a lot of us did where you could go out behind the house and shoot your .22 or have a good portion of your recreation outdoors doing something that didn't involve organized sports. And they're being indoctrinated by television and the school system to see guns as something they shouldn't be interested in. These kids will be the teachers and the lawyers (which will be the politicians !) and policy makers and with no positive reinforcement around guns growing up, fewer and fewer folks will see the need. The "gang" and "crime" problems will continue to grow and then instill more fear in the uninitiated and those who do still own firearms will be even more ostracized and marginalized.
The fact that there are some 60 million gun owners and only around 4 million NRA members is very telling about the human nature side of things. Weed out the cheap skates who don't want to pay the dues and the whiners who cry because the NRA didn't fall on their sword for their per peeve and that still leaves a majority who just don't see the need to "get worked up over it".
Another two or three generations and we will see the results, just as surely as we see the results today from the brain-dead attitudes of the 1960's. The Left realized then that they had to send young people indoctrinated with their beliefs into teaching, law, and print and broadcast journalism. That's where the battlefield is and where it will be won or lost.
When it comes time to come for the guns, there won't be enough left who see the need to make a difference at the rate it's going.
David LaPell
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I agree that there will not be a sudden "no guns allowed" piece of legislation that will come all at once. I think we will unfortunately have some event that will turn the public tide. While that might not be now, with what the young people are being taught in schools these days, I do think it might be within a decade or so.
Even though they are fiction, the trilogy of books by Matt Bracken (www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com) gives a good premise for a starting point. Maybe not as conspiratorial, but a massive event could be the starting point for sweeping gun control legislation, and with the Dems in charge of Congress and the White House, who would stop them? Also with the Republicans willingness at times to go which ever way the political wind blows, what ever resistance might not be anything more than little if anything.
As far as confiscating firearms from law abiding civilians, I see a new breed of law enforcement as well that is now only familiar with the guns that they carry every day, and they really know very little of the Constitution (along with a vast majority of the general public). I think that where you are more likely to have more military and law enforcement confiscating guns in urban areas. In more rural areas, more guns, more resistance, less confiscation.
Even though they are fiction, the trilogy of books by Matt Bracken (www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com) gives a good premise for a starting point. Maybe not as conspiratorial, but a massive event could be the starting point for sweeping gun control legislation, and with the Dems in charge of Congress and the White House, who would stop them? Also with the Republicans willingness at times to go which ever way the political wind blows, what ever resistance might not be anything more than little if anything.
As far as confiscating firearms from law abiding civilians, I see a new breed of law enforcement as well that is now only familiar with the guns that they carry every day, and they really know very little of the Constitution (along with a vast majority of the general public). I think that where you are more likely to have more military and law enforcement confiscating guns in urban areas. In more rural areas, more guns, more resistance, less confiscation.
sparkgap
Absent Comrade
In regards to the Miltary, might this question be the same as in our war between the states when many Federal (Union) Officers and enlisted left and went to the south?
Read this as a question and not as a statement.
Bob
Read this as a question and not as a statement.
Bob
R-Tex
Member
I'm glad to see someone else who's a fan of Matt Bracken - I thought I was all alone! I can enthusiastically recommend his trilogy to everyone who is concerned about the continuation of the rights secured by the Second Ammendment. The last book of the trilogy is eerily foreboding and reflects the current political climate.
If interested, it's possible to read several chapters of each of the three books a the site David posted. Mr. Bracken is a very iteresting and intriguing guy.
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deralte
US Veteran
Check out and support www.oath-keepers.blogspot.com
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When I read this type of thread there is a reality that is seldom touched on. Many Americans are not debt free. They require income, insurance and benefits to maintain their day to day life style. How many would be willing to give up a career of double digit years just shy of retirement to defend a belief?
Would you be willing to risk being homeless, jobless, possibly black listed from future employment to defend a belief? If your wife had cancer or your daughter has diabetes could you loose insurance coverage?
How many up and coming would trample anyone's rights to earn their next promotion?
Would you be willing to risk being homeless, jobless, possibly black listed from future employment to defend a belief? If your wife had cancer or your daughter has diabetes could you loose insurance coverage?
How many up and coming would trample anyone's rights to earn their next promotion?
NFrameFred
Member
Eventually that's what it is coming to, and not just with your beliefs on firearms. The chaff will be separated from the wheat. When you refuse something you cannot lose in favor of something you cannot keep, it's always a false bargain.
hudsonvalley
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But.....
We all agree there are BAD laws....if the POTUS gave an order to confiscate, he is an enemy of the Constitution.....and he is also breaking his oath. We have a serious problem with ideologies today.....a friend has told me that I've watched too many John Wayne movies....what he failed to see was that all those old movies and TV series were morality plays. People had character, were, for the most part, honorable and were able to work things out. Today it's 'government, please help us' and 'where's mine?' Sad. The few good ones that are left...the ones that would stand up and yell out 'I'm Spartacus'....those men/woman we need more of.
We all agree there are BAD laws....if the POTUS gave an order to confiscate, he is an enemy of the Constitution.....and he is also breaking his oath. We have a serious problem with ideologies today.....a friend has told me that I've watched too many John Wayne movies....what he failed to see was that all those old movies and TV series were morality plays. People had character, were, for the most part, honorable and were able to work things out. Today it's 'government, please help us' and 'where's mine?' Sad. The few good ones that are left...the ones that would stand up and yell out 'I'm Spartacus'....those men/woman we need more of.
Why worry about it? When the time comes (and it will be obvious) there will be 3 serious problems:
1) Resupply.
2) Communication
3) Burials
1) Resupply.
2) Communication
3) Burials
Stophel
Member
No, I don't think there will be one sudden, all at once piece of legislation or confiscating scheme, but it will come in increments...increasingly large increments, and I DO believe that it will come about (it already is) MUCH more quickly than many here think it will.
As for me, I got nothing but my Liberty. Bring it on.
As for me, I got nothing but my Liberty. Bring it on.
GatorFarmer
Member
A point is often missed when the example of Germany is invoked. The German people were never disarmed by the Hitler government. Commercial sales of firearms continued all through the war, and there were many private shooting clubs in Germany. The German people were only disarmed under the Allied occupation. If anything, the Nazis made it easier to get a gun than had been the case under the Weimar republic.
Oh there was a permit system, but it was far less onerous than gun laws in many parts of the United States today. Certainly less so than in NYC, and arguably even less so than in California since it was not all that hard to get a carry permit.
Under the Hitler government, the system was simply set up to arrange for only those who were at least nominally politically reliable to be able to purchase a gun. Only German citizens were allowed to own arms, and Jews were no longer considered citizens of Germany. The local police and later Nazi party leaders played a role in issuing permits. If you joined the party and played along, there was no reason at all to even think of disarming you.
That's how to work a system in a comparitively well armed country, you simply coopt part of the population into going along with whatever you're trying to do. You don't need to go around and collect guns, it's esssentially counter productive to do so. What you try to do is make sure that only your supporters have them.
If the assumption is that an authoritarian government needs to disarm the populace, that is a mistaken belief. The Iraqi people had guns under Saddam, and the population of Iran are fairly well armed (pay a fee and you can get a nice AK there). Meanwhile the population of the UK is relatively disarmed, yet live in a stable and fairly democratic nation.
Oh there was a permit system, but it was far less onerous than gun laws in many parts of the United States today. Certainly less so than in NYC, and arguably even less so than in California since it was not all that hard to get a carry permit.
Under the Hitler government, the system was simply set up to arrange for only those who were at least nominally politically reliable to be able to purchase a gun. Only German citizens were allowed to own arms, and Jews were no longer considered citizens of Germany. The local police and later Nazi party leaders played a role in issuing permits. If you joined the party and played along, there was no reason at all to even think of disarming you.
That's how to work a system in a comparitively well armed country, you simply coopt part of the population into going along with whatever you're trying to do. You don't need to go around and collect guns, it's esssentially counter productive to do so. What you try to do is make sure that only your supporters have them.
If the assumption is that an authoritarian government needs to disarm the populace, that is a mistaken belief. The Iraqi people had guns under Saddam, and the population of Iran are fairly well armed (pay a fee and you can get a nice AK there). Meanwhile the population of the UK is relatively disarmed, yet live in a stable and fairly democratic nation.
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