Win. 231 question

[elpac3]

Finally ventured off the triad ranch (BE, unique, 2400) and scored some Winchester 231. Have done some loading with 296 /H110 and understand the not reducing loads by more than 5% due to pressure and burn excursions.

Is the same true of 231? I have worked down BE loads to 20% under published with no ill effects but have seen nothing as it relates to 231.

Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks

GEC

 

[novalty]

What are you loading?

 

[elpac3]

was hoping to work up some sub sonic loads for the 9mm using 124 and 147 grain Bayou bullets.

 

[OKFC05]

Two things can happen when you go low in 9mm with 231/HP38:
1. You can stick a bullet if you go too low below min charges.
2. You get soot residue.

I use a lot of 231/HP38, and find staying in the middle of the recommended charges gives more satisfactory results. However, I do load 3gr in .38 for 148gr wadcutters.

 

[iouri]

Max load of 231 for 124 is subsonic (according to Hodgdon) so I don't think you should worry about downloading and there are no data for 147 gr on Hodgdon site.

 

[novalty]

Will second the experience of increased mess with running light loads of W231/HP-38. Ran 4.0 grs W231, with my 45 loads and while it operated the slide it was way too dirty--recoil was really tame though.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

In the 80's I had a MAC-10 full auto and suppressor. I wanted some subsonic loads and tried developing some 231 loads with 146 and 158 grain jacketed bullets, re-sized to .355". I ended up with a lot of brass with the side blown out in both the MAC and S&W 39-2. I believe I ended up using AA#5 for that project. Ivan

 

[H Richard]

I currently load 4.1 gr. 231 with the 124 gr. Bayou bullet. It just barely makes 1000 fps and is very comfortable but works reliably in both a Shield and a RIA Compact.

 

[italiansport]

This is probably a bit off subject but does anyone know when Win 231 will become available again?
Jim

 

[H Richard]

They are producing it all the time, but it seems everyone buys it as soon as it hits the shelf, (before I get to the store). I had to pay a gouger $35 for my last pound of 231 and a lb. of HP38 (which is the same thing) at a gun show.

 

[WaMike]

This is probably a bit off subject but does anyone know when Win 231 will become available again?
Jim

I bought some HP-38 at Cabela's recently for $19 and change. Keep your eyes open for both, since they're the same product.

 

[colt_saa]

This is probably a bit off subject but does anyone know when Win 231 will become available again?
Jim

I just had 10 1 pound cans show up at my door about 6-7 weeks ago. It was a back order that had been waiting for a while. That makes 18 pounds of 231 that I have picked up in the last 12 months. Way more than I need. I just let my shooting buddies buy the extra from me when this happens

Just put some on order and be patient. As soon as it arrives, put more on order, do not wait until you run out to start looking.

 

[Bkreutz]

Recob's had it earlier this week (1,4,&8# bottles). I didn't need any(I've found powders I like better) but I tipped off a shooting buddy who uses it and he was happy. He was down to his last 4# (which he got from me). When you shoot competitively, powder goes fast. During the season a pound of powder lasts me less than 2 weeks. Right now since I'm still recovering from hip replacement surgery, I've got lots of powder , I'm hoping to change that situation soon.

 

[SLT223]

I've been playing with 231 for a few months now, and found it works much better towards the top end. Big difference in accuracy. When using min or near min charges as per Hodgdon's online data center, all the usual signs of a bad load show up: unburned powder every where, very sooty, poor accuracy. This has been my experience loading warm 38SPL in 357 Magnum brass and 44 SPL in 44 Magnum brass.

 

[uechikid]

This is probably a bit off subject but does anyone know when Win 231 will become available again?
Jim

Keep a look out at the online loading supply stores. Cabela's had both w231 and HP38 last week and Recob's had both a couple of days ago.

 

[novalty]

I just got confirmation from Powder Valley that my 20# of HP-38 has shipped. It is more than I need, but offsets the hazmat enough. Have 3 relatives that reload, and know a member in a local club that has bought from me before. Since the last time the LGS had HP-38 at $25.31 OTD, I figured $25/# was a fair price. My name is Novalty, and I'm a gouger.

 

[novalty]

Recobs has W231 and HP-38 right now.

 

[rwsmith]

I have experimented...

I've experimented with reduced loads in pistols and the only problems are possible erratic ignition, lousy burning and sticking a bullet in the barrel. Also it used to be that jackets would come off bullets and stick in the barrel. Today's bullets are bonded better, but I'd still be wary of this because all bullets aren't created equal. As far as I'm concerned the stuff about reduced loads causing 'detonation' is a lot of hooey but if you stick a bullet in the barrel and fire again all bets are off. It can cause nothing, to 'ringing' your barrel, to bad damage to the gun and you.

I've also experimented with reduced loads in rifles, but only according to manufacturer's data. Rifles are a bit trickier. I believe the above still applies, but there are ways of getting reduced loads in rifles using published data with different powders, even some pistol powders in certain cartridges.

Presently I'm trying to make a reduced load of a 147 grain Bayou coated bullet using Acc #7 for easy recoil to introduce my wife to semi autos. I'm down to 4.6 grains, it operates the action on my 3rd gen just fine and I believe I can reduce the load even more. I wasn't optimistic at all about using them in my new(old) Keltec P 11 but I was testing the gun so I gave it a try. No good. It didn't like lead SWCs at all. I'm going to try 4.3 grains next. One thing about these light loads is that they are easy to shoot and accurate, partially because the gun is easier to control on follow up shots.

 

[Erich]

This is probably a bit off subject but does anyone know when Win 231 will become available again?
Jim

I bought some here locally the day after you posted this . . .

 

[Nevada Ed]

In a Kahr with a 3" barrel and a 124gr plated RN (FMJ) style
bullet .......

4.2grs of w231 gave me 913 fps and 15 foot groups under an inch that shot at POA.


Have not tried the 147gr bullet yet.

 

[ggibson511960]

231 is Back! Maybe.

My LGS just got in a shipment of quite of few heretofore unavailable powders, including 231. They also had Hodgson Universal! I got a few precious pounds and am back in business after a two year hiatus. Maybe, just maybe, the shortage is easing a bit.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I found some W231 9mm data with a 147gr bullet on Handloads.com that is supposed to be from Winchester.
9 mm Load Data - Handloads.Com
With a 147gr lead bullet the charge range of W231 is listed as 3.2gr to 3.5gr.

 

[rwsmith]

Note about Bayou Bullets....

I'm also using the 9mm 147 grain coated SWC at reduced loads of AA #7 and have found them to be superb.

 

[MyDads38]

I haven't used W 231 for several years, but Alliant powders are nowhere to be found in my area! So, about a month ago I picked up an 8 lb. jug of TiteGroup @ $149 and 2 days ago, picked up 2 - 8 lb. jugs of 231 @ $145 each. The LGS still has 1 & 4 lb. containers available. Though Bullseye has always been my "go to" powder, I've learned to expand my selection, in order to keep shooting when things get "tight".

I don't like having several different powders in my reloading stock, but I DO like to shoot! And having some kind of powder on hand, beats having NO POWDER AT ALL!