Winchester 1887 shotgun

[anglaispierre]

I have just ordered one of these shotguns manufactured by Norinco in China and wondered if anyone else had tried one. I know in advance that there is a potential ejection problem with some brands of cartridge, but this can be overcome by using other brands of ammunition or the slightly shorter cartridges..

I first saw a report on the Chinese version in the French shooting magazine Cibles some time ago and immediately wanted one. It is a John Moses Browning design, and will complement my small collection of Winchester 94 rifles, also designed by the Master. Eventually I want to complete my Browning collection with a 1911 pistol.

Although the 1887 only had a production run of 14 years, 65,000 were sold before the gun was withdrawn due to the increasing popularity of the Browning designed pump action black powder Winchester 1893, and its smokeless replacement the Winchester 1897, which Norinco are also making. That model will not be available in France due to the French authorities attitude to pump action shotguns. I have read that Winchester asked Browning to design a lever action shotgun in keeping with the rest of their range. He was initially reluctant, but finally agreed. The idea of a repeating shotgun was born.

The 87 was not only popular with some American law enforcement agencies, but also found favour with the bad guys. Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow - Bonnie and Clyde - had one with them on their final day. Clyde was reaching for the 87 when Special Investigator Frank Hamer put an end to their reign of terror. They won’t get me as easily as that. I intend to stay on the right side of the law with my guns.

 

[Alpo]

They're nice.

Coyote Cap, a gunsmith up in Yankeeland somewhere, went to China and got 'em made. Took him over two years. Started in '03 and the first ones didn't arrive until '05.

They were designed for using Winchester Featherlites. And if you can find (or make) 2 1/2" shells, they run better.

 

[anglaispierre]

They're nice.

Coyote Cap, a gunsmith up in Yankeeland somewhere, went to China and got 'em made. Took him over two years. Started in '03 and the first ones didn't arrive until '05.

They were designed for using Winchester Featherlites. And if you can find (or make) 2 1/2" shells, they run better.

Thanks for posting your photo complete with a couple of toes at the bottom of the photo. I see that the 2 shown are different lengths, and substantially shorter than the one I am buying, which has a 27" barrel and holds 7 cartridges in the magazine plus one in the chamber. What are the specs (length and magazine capacity) of yours? And do they shoot well? We don't have much Western Action Shooting over here although I understand it does exist. Mine will be used for hunting which is why I ordered the longer barrel version.

I am paying 430€ compared with a suggested price of 600€ when the model was tested by the French magazine a couple of years ago, and a recommended price of £600 (730€) in the UK in 2009. How much are they over there?

 

[Alpo]

Toes are for scale.

When Cap dreamed up this idea, they were going to be used for Cowboy shooting. Over here we have minimum length laws. Can't have a shotgun barrel shorter than 18 inches without special permission and extra cost to the government.

They were supposed to be 18 1/4", with a special thicker-walled barrel, threaded for interchangeable chokes, an oversize bead front sight and a recoil pad installed, with a slight angle on the butt that makes it easier to shoot something on the ground ('cause we shoot more ground targets than flying ones).

When the first guns showed up, in '05, they had 14 1/4" lengths of pull, no pads, 20" thin-wall barrel, fixed I/C choke and a standard hunting bead sight. He was not happy. The ones that came in in '06 and later were made to his spec. So those are an '05 gun and an '06 gun.

Don't really know how many the magazine holds. With Cowboy you are only allowed to load two at a time. I don't think I've ever had it fully loaded.

The trigger is funky. It just feels weird. One thing to be ware of is the hammer. The spur is very short. And Cap had them make it longer than they were on the originals, but it's still really too short. Cocking it is not a problem. Letting the hammer down on a live one is dicey.

Field loads, 1 1/8 ounces.

This last one's a movie. Click on it.

 

[anglaispierre]

Got my 1887 in the post this morning. Here it is with its newly acquired family consisting of Model 94s in descending order with dates of manufacture in brackets : .444 Marlin (the one that lets you know you have fired it - kicks like a mule) bought new 2007, .44 Mag with Bushnel red dot and silly cross-bolt safety (between 1992 when cross-bolt safety was introduced and 2003 when top-tang safety was introduced), 9422 (1973) and finally my first Winchester 94, a 30-30 Win (1979).

 

[Armyphotog]

I wouldn't mind having one, but as memory serves, they are a little pricey. China did make a replica of the Model 97, as well, but with similar "shoddy" reports of quality.

 

[anglaispierre]

Took the 1887 to the range today. I bought some 67mm (about 2.6") cartridges but thought I would try some standard 70mm (2.75") Winchester Double X ammo first to see if there was any problem. No problem at all with feed or ejection so I never got round to trying the shorter ones.

Although there is no safety device fitted, dropping the hammer into the midway position provides some form of safety, but this is a risky business. If your thumb slips, boom. The best way to ensure the gun is safe (other than emptying the chamber and magazine, is to load the magazine without feeding a cartridge into the chamber, and close the action. A quick movement of the lever brings a cartridge into the chamber. An alternative when actually hunting is to load the chamber but drop the lever slightly so that the firing pin is clear of the loaded cartridge. I often do this when hunting with my 94s.

Unloading is simple and safe. Simply raise a cartridge up to the level of the chamber with the action open and lift it out. No need to work the action fully to eject the unused cartridges with the inherent risk of accidentally touching the trigger. The latter method is described in the somewhat basic instruction manual (in French) supplied by the importer of the Norinco gun. The former method is described in the Chiappa manual for their version of the gun, but their translation into English leaves something to be desired.

I found the gun was comfortable to shoot with minimal recoil. Think I am going to have a lot of fun with it when the hunting season starts later in the year.

I'd love to see more comments from other owners of this gun.