Your workplace does not allow concealed carry. Do you still carry?

J274895

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Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I'm genuinely interested to know what your thoughts are.

My workplace rules specifically state that carrying a weapon at work is a terminable offense. Or more appropriately, getting CAUGHT with a weapon at work is terminable.

Given that, do you still carry while at work?
 
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Rules are rules.
If you get caught, you will be fired- I think that is clear enough.

If the rules of your workplace aren't to your liking, I most thoroughly suggest to prepare and make haste to find thyself another abode in whence to toil for script.

In other words, if you don't like the way the hash slinger runs the joint, beat it and get a new pad to earn some bread.
Heavy, man. ;)
 
Well, I make the rules where I work, so it is a non-issue. However, I would not work anywhere with such a rule, if I could get a job elsewhere. Before I got to make the rules, I often broke the silly ones, so there you go...
 
This is a valid question that, I believe, many people have to deal with.
Do you carry secretly, risk getting caught, and possibly survive an incident at your workplace?
Or do you leave the gun in your car and risk being unarmed?
Not an easy question.
The scarcity of jobs these days makes the decision even tougher...
 
We don't have any formal restrictions to concealed carry, so its not an issue. I would think long and hard about breaking the rules.
You'll have to weigh the risks and benefits of carrying. Are you in a high risk situation where you are likely to encounter criminal or dangerous individuals? Or, are there people that are likely to become angry and fly off the handle? Versus - are you in a place where the likelihood of encountering a life and death situation extremely remote? If the former, you may have to take the risk of termination, but if the latter, then it would probably be very unwise to carry. Plus, if you did carry and get into a shooting situation, you'll increase you legal headaches/risks.
 
You also have to worry about vengeful coworkers who may know you carry, and also a pissed off wife/ex-wife/girlfriend calling your work and ratting you out. I heard a story while doing some work at a Toyota plant in southern Indiana that a worker there had his ex-wife call the plant and inform them that he generally carried concealed, or at least had a firearm in his vehicle. The way their policy went was that guns were not even allowed ON THE PROPERTY and thus not in his vehicle. He was immediately terminated...

Moral: if your carrying where your technically not supposed to be - do so at your own risk... and keep it secret.
 
Currently, I've got a part time gig at a gun shop. Open carry is required. I like it.

The last full time job I had involved changing into clean-room garb several times a day. Company policy forbade weapons on the premises. It would have been nearly impossible to carry under those conditions.

I worked there for the high wage and very good medical benefits. Similar wages and benefits are tough to find. My wife had a very expensive chronic illness, to the tune of $200K/year. It would have been very short sighted to take a big cut in pay and benfits so I could carry on the job.
 
You also have to worry about vengeful coworkers who may know you carry, and also a pissed off wife/ex-wife/girlfriend calling your work and ratting you out. I heard a story while doing some work at a Toyota plant in southern Indiana that a worker there had his ex-wife call the plant and inform them that he generally carried concealed, or at least had a firearm in his vehicle. The way their policy went was that guns were not even allowed ON THE PROPERTY and thus not in his vehicle. He was immediately terminated...

Moral: if your carrying where your technically not supposed to be - do so at your own risk... and keep it secret.

How in the world did Toyota get away with that? They have no legal authority to search a vehicle that is privately owned by an employee nor to search the body of an employee. They would have had to fire him based off of hearsay which certainly could have led to a wrongful termination suit. Unless the guy admitted to carrying or somehow brandished or failed to keep it concealed, I don't really think there is much they could have done about it.
 
My work has a written policy which states that "the unlawful carrying of weapons is prohibited." Notice the word "UNLAWFUL?" I did. I have a permit so I figure it is allowed, and if I ever get diciplined for doing so I figure I might have a legal case.
 
I only have once, and it was under very special circumstances.

I was the facility security officer (personnel, document and physical security) for a cleared NASA contractor.

When the first Gulf War started, I went to my ignoramus, Klansman boss and told him we needed to program the access control system so that it didn't unlock the employee door automatically every morning. Being the drooling simpleton he was, he refused.

Shortly afterward, I was in the john in the basement around the corner from my office and across the hall from the space instrument assembly facilities. Somebody came in and said that everybody should immediately leave the basement and come to the lobby. I figured that there'd been some kind of hazmat spill in one of the labs.

When I got to the lobby, I found a bunch of people milling around aimlessly. Jokingly I asked somebody if there was a bomb threat. They said, "Yes".

Apparently one of the engineers in the basement got a bomb threat on his phone, telling him that the bomb was in his desk somewhere. He reported this to my moron boss, who told him to search his desk. Smarter than the average engineer, he told my boss to go **** himself and search the area himself. Rather than evacuate the building, this imbecile just collected everybody in the lobby without telling them why. Having at least several braincells to rub together, it immediately occurred to me that this was a fine way to get a bunch of people together so that you could shoot as many of them as possible, probably achieving as many casualties by trampling and crushing as by shooting.

The next day, I started carrying a brief case to work. Inside of the briefcase were a Safariland ballistic vest, my Series 70 Colt and a couple of extra magazines. I kept this up until the end of the war. I later found out that this was just one in a series of bomb threats which that jackass had neglected to tell me about. I had two bosses, the other for computer work. I called the non-stupid boss down to my office, told him what was going on, and told him that if anything happened, he should come straight to my office (behind a vault door), since I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for his chances with "David Duke" calling the shots.

There was no concealed carry in Ohio at the time. Bombings and mass shootings weren't authorized either. I figured that the penalties for getting caught unarmed in a terrorist massacre were much higher than those for carrying a concealed weapon.

I believe in obeying the law... just not at the cost of my own life.
 
cshoff,

Depends on whether there's a law in that state that protects workers from such things. Oklahoma has one now, Florida's is in limbo at least as to part of it.

It's not a Fourth Amendment violation, so unless there's a law involved the employer gets to make the rules.

If one doesn't like the rules, one doesn't have to work there. If one violates the rules, one doesn't get to work there.
 
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cshoff,

Depends on whether there's a law in that state that protects workers from such things. Oklahoma has one now, Florida's is in limbo at least as to part of it.

It's not a Fourth Amendment violation, so unless there's a law involved the employer gets to make the rules.

If one doesn't like the rules, one doesn't have to work there. If one violates the rules, one doesn't get to work there.

An employer does not have the authority to conduct a search of a privately owned vehicle in ANY state, period. Even law enforcement requires probable cause or a search warrant. There is no getting around that. The only exception would be if a vehicle is on the premises of a government facility where all vehicles were subject to search upon admittance to the premises or if said employee signed some kind of legally binding agreement that authorized such a search to take place.

The laws you are talking about are laws that make it unlawful for an employer to prohibit employees from keeping a lawfully possessed handgun locked in their vehicle on employer property. They do nothing to change the fact that an employer cannot legally search a privately owned vehicle that is parked on their lot.
 
I've addressed this issue many times in quite a few states. Basically, if your state statutes DOES NOT list your place of business as a specific exclusion (as in "place of nuisance", schools, government buildings etc.) then CCW prohibitions can be classified as "private property exclusions" to your carry authorization.

Violating these rules can and may result in Trespass issues and may establish cause for termination by your employer. The critical issue is that if you do not argue the point, there is usually no grounds for criminal prosecution or loss of your CCW privilege. It's your call.

Personally, I feel concealed carry is just that, and if there are no metal detectors no one should ever no you are armed UNLESS THEY NEED TO! You "pays your money" and "takes your chances".

It is interesting to note that due to a total media blackout of almost anything "firearm positive", a number of serious civil actions have been filed by employees who have become victims of violent crime while being unarmed due to company policies. Parking lot prohibitions in a few states have been specifically overuled by some state and local courts.

Nayth
 
If I felt I needed to I would but most places I've worked I saw no reason to carry. I'm self employed now and carry 99.9% of the time. Noone else ever notices I carry and I never disclose the fact. Conceal carry is what it is "conceal carry". Keep it that way.
 
An employer does not have the authority to conduct a search of a privately owned vehicle in ANY state, period. Even law enforcement requires probable cause or a search warrant. There is no getting around that.
It's done all the time and is perfectly legal except in a few states. Most often it comes down like the famous Weyerhauser deal in Oklahoma. They use a drug/firearms dog who sniffs employee vehicles parked on company property. If the employee denies permission to search after the dog "hits" they're fired. If they okay a search and a gun is found they're fired.

Like in the Weyerhauser case, this has been tried and upheld on appeal all over the country many, many times.

Bob
 
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cshoff,

I'm surprised you are not familiar with this. Remember all that Constitutional stuff only applies to the government. Probable cause, etc., relates to the government.

Some of the "department" stores used to routinely search employees' lockers for drugs, stolen property, etc., even cutting the employees' locks.

Cars can be "searched" in the manner posted by bk43 unless there's some law to prevent it.Since the courts seemed to uphold these things, the NRA went to bat, in various states, to get laws prohibiting this passed or laws saying guns on employers' property were legal.

You can see both sides of this-the gun owners say The Second Amendment says...," while the property owners say, "It's my property and...."

So, you have two competing rights. We, of course, want the Second Amendment to trump, but, the Supremes haven't got a case yet.

Bob
 
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NAYTH speaks well.

When I went to work for my last employer, their rulebook had nothing on firearms. Later, it did, although somehow I never got around to acknowledging receipt of the new rules. Regardless, I had at least one firearm available every single day I worked there (about five years). MA law says nothing against my practice (or theirs). I regarded both the likelihood of my needing a firearm and the likelihood of their discovering my firearm(s) as minimal. Apparently, I was correct on both counts. However, the potential difference in consequences of making one kind of wrong choice versus the opposite wrong choice was tremendous. I chose the safe route.

Interestingly, our company went through several "downsizings" and a blanket outsourcing (that ended my employment). On one of those occasions, the last, as I recall, an anti-gun fellow employee commented on what he considered a failure to provide proper security against adverse action by a disgruntled employee. This was after the killings in Wakefield. Of course, I made no mention to him of what I considered his inconsistency in wanting to deny me what I, in fact, had, namely my own provision for defense against just what he was worried about. As usually happens, the entire process proceeded to a peaceful conclusion.

There's a lot under the surface that people who don't need to don't know about.
 
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