12" Length of Pull-Shotguns

SW CQB 45 · Jul 21, 2013

I have been tying up the Lounge with space trying to get my two 870s right for me.

I have two....

older Police 870 with a SpeedFeed stock (extra capacity in stock)

and

Wingmaster 870 28" with factory wood.

I will start with the Wingmaster.....it will mainly be for a small frame female teen and I have been working on a ruffy wood project to get a shorter stock.

I measured LOP and its 13.75" (OMG!) (trigger to back of recoil pad).

my 870P with the Speedfeed is 13.75" LOP ((((OMG!!!!!))))

my ruffy wood was only cut 1" so it only takes the LOP down 12.75".

I see that most youth or LE stocks advertise LOP of 12".

QUESTION FOR YOU BIG TIME SHOTGUN HISTORIANS or those who might know....

why the really long LOP for shotguns?

I am 6'03", 38" long arms and 3XL hands. I stared my LEO career in 1989, we were taught to blade our body to make ourselves a smaller target. Since we could not "chicken wing" our arm, the shotgun would slip with recoil. I recall shooting the 870 with a bladed stance and after quals with full power slug and buck, recoil would slide the buttstock to my shoulder arm area and I would have a nasty bruise.

Over the years, I changed my style to square off to my target however the length of pull with a vest made it feel odd.

Now that I have my own shotguns, I want them to feel right and I want to teach correctly starting with mounting the SG to your upper body.

Long LOP shotguns....were they designed for a bladed stance?

Those with LOP 12" shotguns, can you give a comparison on mounting, pointing and shoot ability related to bone stock factory LOP?

I plan to reduce both shotguns stocks LOP to 12". I did cut some stocks for the academy guns a few years back and may need to go pull them for a true test.

thanks in advance

SW CQB 45 · Jul 21, 2013

or am I over thinking and cannot compare skeet from defensive type shooting?

I was never a skeet shooter or given proper instruction.

should skeet shooting be taught with a bladed stance and elbow out?

ordy · Jul 21, 2013

As far as stance goes, point your belt buckle at two o'clock relative to the field and your feet a little less than shoulder width and then lean forward a little to help with recoil. The elbow up or chicken wing will help keep your cheek weld on the stock when you have to swing left to make the shot. A lot of new shooters will pull their head away from the stock to follow the bird and then move the gun. Once the gun is mounted, the head, shoulders and gun should move as a unit by pivoting at the waist. Find the sweet spot between the shoulder and where the collar bone meets the neck when mounting the gun to avoid a bruise. Every length of pull is as individual as the shooter. When the gun is mounted, you should be able to lay three fingers on the stock between your nose and right hand. These are the things taught to me by an old hand and it's worked out well for me. Hope it helps.

Cooter Brown · Jul 21, 2013

What is the intended purpose of the gun?

It it's to shoot flying (birds, clays) 12 inches will be far too short. Using proper technique someone your size would likely find 13 3/4" too short. I'm a head shorter than you with a 34" sleeve and my english stocked game gun is 14 15/16" My pistol grip guns are about 14 3/8" because of the way the pistol grip rolls your shoulder forward a bit.

Most American shotguns have for years been stocked 14 1/8" to 14 1/4" or so and most people who shoot a lot find that too short.

Within reason LOP is the least important of the measurements for consistent shooting, drop at comb, drop at heel and cast being more critical for instinctive wingshooting. But 12" is far too short for all but folks of very small stature.

Before you can really determine proper stock dimensions, you need a consistent, repeatable mount. If you go to youtube I think Chris Batha has some good videos. Most importantly you bring the gun to your head, you don't lower your head to the gun, but it's hard to teach a good mount without showing it.

As far as stance, I don't know what blading is. On a skeet field, in general terms, if you point your off foot (left foot for a righty) at the spot where you intend to break the bird, and have most of your weight on that foot, you should be about right. If you do that you'll naturally trail your other foot behind. Or tip over...Again, this is something easier to show than to describe, at least for me.

Shooting clays is a ton of fun. If you're interested in doing it, I'd suggest leaving the LOP on the guns as is and seeking out a lesson or two from someone who knows what they're doing. The first thing they'll do is look at your mount and give advice on that.

Good wingshooting is very unforgiving of bad technique, and it's a lot easier to learn good technique up front than to unlearn a bad habit later. And if you figure ammo costs vs. hits, cheaper!

Wee Hooker · Jul 21, 2013

The good news is that used stocks for 870's are common and inexpensive so your not married to whateve you modify.. The bad news (based on my experience with a 12" stocked Win 1300) is that too short a stock can beat you up since your face is right up on the receiver. You might want to cut 1/2" at a time and cover with a good quality slip on recoil pad before going right to 12".

H Richard · Jul 21, 2013

If you cut any off, keep the slabs which should be able to be put back on as spacers. I find most shotguns too short vs too long, and I am only 5'9" with a 34" sleeve. Most "hunting" shotguns may bee too short as they are intended to be used with a coat on.

SW CQB 45 · Jul 22, 2013

this is exactly the info I am looking for.

As LEO, we teach arms tucked in and I dont shoulder the stock, it rides closer centerline or over my pectoral.

I have never been given proper instruction on shooting skeet.

I will be teaching my daughter....so I need proper instruction.

the gun I will be teaching her is an 870 12g Wingmaster 28" with a 12.75 LOP. Me being large frame and she is small but long arms, I will do some tests and cut small when the time comes.

It appears shooting skeet and defensive shotgun require different holds to be effective. I got some learning to do.

thanks again....I have some direction.

tops · Jul 22, 2013

Google can be your friend. There will be sites that show how to position feet, how to get a gun to fit, etc. I can't remember the name of the club but I shot skeet in Victoria several years ago and the people were super nice. I am sure someone there can help. Larry

SW CQB 45 · Jul 22, 2013

tops said:
Google can be your friend. There will be sites that show how to position feet, how to get a gun to fit, etc. I can't remember the name of the club but I shot skeet in Victoria several years ago and the people were super nice. I am sure someone there can help. Larry

Hey Larry, I think you are referring to the club at the Airport???

Yes, a brother officer goes out there and I have been wanting to go with him, but I am a starting out as a owner of a shotgun.

never needed one as I had them at work and mainly a handgunner but I want to try it out.

Cooter Brown · Jul 22, 2013

SW CQB 45 said:
this is exactly the info I am looking for.

As LEO, we teach arms tucked in and I dont shoulder the stock, it rides closer centerline or over my pectoral.

I have never been given proper instruction on shooting skeet.

I will be teaching my daughter....so I need proper instruction.

the gun I will be teaching her is an 870 12g Wingmaster 28" with a 12.75 LOP. Me being large frame and she is small but long arms, I will do some tests and cut small when the time comes.

It appears shooting skeet and defensive shotgun require different holds to be effective. I got some learning to do.

thanks again....I have some direction.

Excellent! This will be something you and your daughter will enjoy a lot. Getting some instruction is a great idea. It'll save time and frustration. I think some instructors have lower kid's rates. Lot of good instructors in Texas. Youngsters, particularly girls, tend to pick up on this quickly. They have no preconceived notions.

You should be prepared to be humbled by your little future Kim Rhode!

Again, I'd leave the guns be until you have a good mount and a better idea what you're looking for.

Have a ball and let us know how it goes!

Ivan the Butcher · Jul 22, 2013

The rule of thumb for a wing/clays gun was; put the shotgun butt on the inside of your strong side elbow and your finger should be on right at the trigger. The "lean forward" par of the stance, will make the needed length of pull longer. I have an older (10-12 years) Browning 425 20 gauge, that I shoot sporting clays with it has a 14 3/4 LOP and is by far the longest I have. I shoot this gun best with a padded shooting shirt. As the weather is colder and the clothes get thicker or the recoil requires more padding, my shorter LOP gund fit better and I shoot them better. Clothing, stance, and (to a very small degree) weight loss/gain can all effect proper LOP. Many police departments don't shoulder shotguns, they only shoot from the hip. The extremely short rear stock aids in fitting the gun, not to the shooter, but to the car. By the way, if you use a thick ballistic vest, you'll need a 12" LOP. Ivan

Nevada Ed · Jul 22, 2013

My O/U Trap gun has a LOP of 15 inches.

Depends on your frame and how you mount the gun.
If you can hit birds and it does not kick, you are on the right track.
If you have a sore cheek or shoulder after shooting a few boxes of shells, you have a pore gun fit.

Time to visit a gunsmith.

Farmer17 · Jul 22, 2013

Most factory long gun stocks used to fit me fine and then I started weight lifting and thickened up my chest and shoulders and now most stocks are WAY too long. I just bought a Mossberg 12 gauge pump and it seemed like it was made for a giant, so I cut an inch off and wish I could take another 1/4" off also.

12" Length of Pull-Shotguns

SW CQB 45

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SW CQB 45

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ordy

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Cooter Brown

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Wee Hooker

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H Richard

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SW CQB 45

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tops

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SW CQB 45

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Cooter Brown

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Ivan the Butcher

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Nevada Ed

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