Shiloh Sharps vs. Italian copies

My range buddies shoot Black Powder Cartridge Rifles and after hanging around with them for a few sessions and seeing how much fun they have I picked up a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps in 45-70 with a 32" octogon barrel from Cabelas. I got some nice sights for it and have been learning to load BP cartridges. It's a bunch of fun and I really enjoy it. They keep telling me I should have just gotten a Shiloh Sharps and been done with it. After a couple of years of shooting the Pedersoli I have decided to step up to the Shiloh.

I have an opportunity to get a kinda plain Jane Shiloh sporter with a 28" round barrel, nice sights and in very nice but not perfect condition for $1600. Most of my shooting will be at 200 yards but will want to work up to long range shooting after a while. Any thoughts on the rifle I am looking at?

Good friend had a bunch of Pedersoli's sharps. Beautiful rifles and very accurate. I say this because I shot a couple. While there is a waiting period for the Shiloh's and I don't know how long is it at this time you have your Pedersoli now and can use it to learn and and enjoy shooting with it. They are not by any means a second class rifle. Enjoy. Frank

What Frank said.

Shiloh Sharps are great rifles, but they are "just copies", too, not "originals". I hunted with Sharps replicas for many years (unfortunately, shoulder issues forced me to go to something half the weight quite some years ago); I got into it because I wanted the challenge of more primitive weapons but was no good at archery and found muzzle-loaders a hassle in the dripping-wet Pacific NW. So single-shot iron-sight cartridge rifles it was.

I started with an IAB Sharps, then upgraded to an Armi Sport 1874 and finally a Pedersoli Billy Dixon model. I got a chance to shoot a Shiloh a few times; as I said, lovely gun, but didn't do anything my Pedersoli didn't do. But of course the craftsmanship and pride of ownership counts for something, too.

No comparison . The Shilohs stand far ahead of the pasta rifles .

I do not like the checkering on the Italian guns. I bought three Shilohs in the mid 90s. Two to sit on and resell only when i could make a minimum $1000 profit on them which I did. The 2nd one sold just last Christmas! They were all around $1500 new. I kept the one I liked most. The Model 3 with half round barrel. It's pretty close to the Business rifle you are looking at only 30" instead of 28". If the rifle you are looking at is less expensive than others, I think it would suit you well. The military butt might hurt after a while, though. Mine are shotgun butts here. The middle gun here was made as a "little Quigley". Same sights and features but shorter. Long Range Express on top, my #3 Sporter on bottom. No rifle, except my dad's old '92 winchester fit me as well as this rifle. I would go for a Shiloh if possible.

I think the Shiloh Business rifle is one you will enjoy.

Over the years I've owned two Shilohs, a Dixie Gun Works Pedersoli BPCR sharps in .45-70 and one late Hartford original Sharps 1874 Mid Range .40-50BN.

The Shilohs had by far the best fit and finish. When it came to accuracy it was a really toss up between my plain Jane Shiloh #1 Sporter and the Dixie Gun works. Both would shoot sub MOA with good Lyman 510 grain blackpowder loads. I never could get the original, which had a great bore, to shoot all that well.

Thank you all for the great input. Those rifles in your photos are beautiful. I plan to keep my Pedersoli as it has a heavy 34" barrel and is a great shooter but I have decided to get the Shiloh as well. There is enough difference between them with the shorter and lighter barrel that they will both have thier place. I think the Shiloh will be perfect for 200 yard steel animals where there will be some off hand shooting. Like I said, I am new to this and still learning. It's the most fun I have had shooting in yers.

No experience with the two mentioned but a buddy of mine has a H&R Buffalo Bore 45-70. It cost $450 or so and it's a break open action. It's not a sniper rifle but it will handle hot loads and I had no problems breaking rocks at 400 yards

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alde-

I think you made the right choice in getting the Shiloh Sharps. If its configured the way you want it you are ahead of the game. The last time I looked there was a long backlog if you want to order one. I think you would be able to get your money back out of it at $1600 in the condition you describe.

I've got an early Farmingdale NY manufactured 45/70 "Sporting Rifle #2" that I ordered in 1979 (only $411.75 dealer/$549 retail at that time). The wood is nondescript but the rifle shoots well enough but I only have access to a 200 yard range. Since I got a 45/70 Browning BPCR the Sharps doesn't get shot as much.

It says, "Sharp's" , that's all you need to know. Buy it.

I have a Taylor's Arms Quigley, 45-70, 32" barrel, silhouette sights, excellent accuracy, but it isn't a Sharp's.

It's like owning a Taurus when you couldn't afford a S&W.

In the mid 80's I had a FIE import "Pasta" 1874 Sharps in 45/70. I used too hard of bullets and got bad results, my best friend built smokeless loads, with soft lead 500 gr LRN bullets, in the 1300 fps area. He got 1 MOA groups using the poor tang sight they sold as an accessory.

A few years ago I bought a 45/70 Farmingdale N.Y. 1874 Shiloh Sharps with MVA tang sights for $2000 OTD. It shoots fine, it's that my eyes can't do the targets beyond a 150-175 yards any more, with the BP velocity rounds groups run in the .5 to .7 MOA accuracy.

I would say buy all the rifles you can at that price!!!

Ivan

I had the Pasta sharps carbine, roll your own in paper and used caps. Took it in trade, did not care for it too much. A guy offered me much more than I had in it and away it went. At that point in my life I was stuck with exact copies of Hawkins Rifles, 54 and 58 cal. That never worked either, didn't shoot a buff, grizz nor trap a beaver.

I have studied the workmanship of both and much prefer the Shiloh. Shiloh's are built more precisely and with better metal than the original.

Engineer1911 said:

It says, "Sharp's" , that's all you need to know. Buy it.

I have a Taylor's Arms Quigley, 45-70, 32" barrel, silhouette sights, excellent accuracy, but it isn't a Sharp's.

It's like owning a Taurus when you couldn't afford a S&W.

Click to expand...

Not to belabor the point, but a Shiloh Sharps isn't a Sharps either. The Shiloh is a replica just like the Pedersoli ones; the Shiloh Rifle company was founded sometime in the 1970s and has nothing to do with the real Sharps Rifle Company that closed in the 1880s.

Shiloh builds fine custom-level rifles, but these guns are still replicas and not original Sharps.

Looks like Calamity Jane liked the Sharps Business Rifle.

I pulled the trigger on the Shiloh Sharps Bussines Rifle. I won't have it in hand for a couple of weeks as my schedule won't sink with my FFL's till then. I can't wait to hit the range with it. I have some of my "learning" loads from my Pedersoli ready to go. They are 62 grains of Goex FFg with a 500 grain bullet from Buffalo Arms. I am just getting setup to cast my own.

I plan to keep the Pedersoli as it has the 32 inch heavy octogon barrel so it's different enough. It shoots great and looks darn nice too. It's just too heavy for off hand shooting at least for me.

Had a Shiloh Business rifle many years ago.. Sold it to a guy who took it to Raton and won a bunch of prizes with it. They will do the job.

I had the barrel of my original relined, it is now a 40-70 modified sharps straight taper - kind of wildcat, but really shoots, love that caliber.

Several points to consider:

1. Pride of ownership.

This is a big thing with some people. Those people like Shiloh Sharps rifles, and they are very well made.

Part of that dates back to the 1990's after "Quigley Down Under was released and the Sharps suddenly went from a small niche market to a very popular rifle. Shiloh Sharps rifles went from available and expensive but still affordable, to a 3-4 year wait list, with way too many people buying them with the intention of re-selling them, - often successfully at a 300% mark up.

I put those folks in the same scab pile as the folks who hang out at Wal-mart after the truck arrives to buy up all the .22LR ma to re-sell at inflated prices. It was an unethical practice then and it's an unethical practice now.

At that time, an $800 Armi Sport or Pedersoli available on the shelf to take home today made a lot more sense than a $1600 Shiloh Sharps you'd have to either way 3-4 years to get, or pay $4K or so to take home right away. If you were a shooter who planned on using the hell out of it, there wasn't much of a decision to make.

If you were a shooter who could afford it, you spent $2400 for both the take home today $800 Italian Sharps and $1600 for a Shiloh Sharps on a 3-4 year waitlist.

2. C Sharps Arms is the other US family owned player in the game.

Shiloh and C Sharps Arms started out as a single company in 1975 but the owners had differences and split in the 1980s.

Most folks give a very slight not to Shiloh on fit and finish, and some folks give C. Sharps a very slight nod on accuracy with the Badger barrels they use. The cost is about the same from either company for a comparable rifle. The difference is that C. Sharps will ship you a rifle in maybe 3-6 months where Shiloh will still take a couple years.

3. Accuracy

The Pedersoli rifles are well made, but their Soule sights have some issues.

The windage adjustments are a lot slower as you have to account for some slop in the sight and lock it down consistently after each adjustment. In some cases the sights have led to the rifles getting a bad rap, and that's just not the case.

The Shiloh Sharps, C Sharps Arms rifles, the Pedersoli Sharps rifles and most of the Armi Sport Sharps are all 1-2 MOA capable rifles when equipped with a high quality Soule sight. The difference between 1 MOA and 2 MOA really comes down to the person developing the load. If you use a known source of foundry pure lead to develop your bullet alloy, cast with a great deal of attention to temperature and fill and then weigh the resulting bullets for consistency and put an equal level of effort into the powder charge and compression, you can get exceptional accuracy. If not...you'll probably blame the rifle.

4. $1600 for a Shiloh Sharps in very good condition is a good price.

The sights are probably worth $200-$300 depending on what they are, so you need to add that to a new role cost of about $1900 for a plain jane rifle like that. So you're saving around $500-$600 dollars over a new rifle, and you're not having to wait. But if you're in it for the pride of ownership "gun art" thing, those imperfections on the used rifle. might bother you.

5. It won't make you a better shooter.

With the exception of the Pedersoli sight issue discussed above, a Shiloh Sharps probably won't make you any better shooter than you are with your current rifle. And if you have got Pedersoli sights on it, I suspect you'll be hard pressed to see any difference downrange.

Stop worrying about what folks on the internet might think. If you want it, just get it. But be sure to have reasonable expectations and understand exactly why you want it - or not.

6. I've been happy with my Italian Sharps.

It shot great with the 480 gr Lyman 457658 bullet with a compressed FFg load when I lived in SD and shot it at longer ranges, and it shoots great here in NC at 200-300 yard ranges with commercial cast 405 gr flat points on top of 14 grains of Unique and a poly fiber wad.

I've owned it about 20 years now, it looks nice, it shoots great, and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg or make me wait for years. I got no complaints.