Isn't selling ammo for profit illegal without an FFL?

gregintenn · Mar 2, 2013

If so, why doesn't the BATFE make themselves useful and start prosecuting these folks?

I'm all for free market principles, but these folks standing in line at WalMart, waiting on an ammo shipment in order to resale is quite unseemly in my opinion.

SMSgt · Mar 2, 2013

If the state determines they are "in the business" of buying/selling without a proper business license, there is any issue. A one-time deal is no issue, but I've seen people who constantly buy and sell autos for profit (in private sales) get into trouble. I don't believe you need a FFL to sell ammo, just firearms. But hey, it someone wants to buy "resold" ammo, well--stupid is as stupid does.

cavedyvr · Mar 2, 2013

There is no federal requirement of any license to sell ammunition loaded by others.

Warren Sear · Mar 2, 2013

cavedyvr said:
There is no federal requirement of any license to sell ammunition loaded by others.

I am glad, but surprised to hear that.

I am also happy to know that enterprising individuals are investing in ammo that is priced too cheaply and selling it to greedy panic buyers and hoarders.

moosedog · Mar 2, 2013

Capitalism my friend.

alwslate · Mar 3, 2013

Nothing new about this. I remember twenty five or more years ago
when many of the tables at gun shows were occupied by self styled
wheeler-dealers without FFLs trying to make a few bucks on weekends.
Those guys depended on the "average joe" coming to shows having
even less knowledge about guns and ammo than they did. Local K-mart
stores used to sell 22 ammo at very low prices when on sale and these
sharpies would stock up and resell it at guns shows with the K-mart
stickers still on many of the boxes. Buyer beware.

jonesy814 · Mar 3, 2013

I would be careful about selling ammo to anyone in NY state. They have some crazy screwed up laws, but other than that, sellin factory ammo is no problem. Selling reloads, is another matter, as you would then be a manufacturer of ammo. You need a license for that. Also ammo that is shipped must be through UPS or FED EX. The post office wont take it.

blujax01 · Mar 3, 2013

jonesy said it. Manufacturing ammunition for sale requires a license, reselling commercially manufactured ammunition is no different than reselling anything else "garage sale" style.

Big Fred · Mar 3, 2013

Sure, lets get the BATFE involved in MORE.

scooter123 · Mar 3, 2013

Let us NOT give the folks in DC any more ideas. I would comment further on the basically Liberal attitude intrinsic in your statement but that would stray into Politics, which is banned. Think about it, you are seeing free enterprise at work.

I do agree however that ammo prices are getting to Stupid High levels. In order to address that I think that we need to inform all these new firearms owners that paying these prices makes them look like fools. This is especially true of any fool engaging in hoarding today, the time to stock up was after that initial panic in 2008.

Side by Side · Mar 3, 2013

Let's work on Straw Purchase's,Face to Face sale's, and the Gun Show loop Hole. These will help protect our firearm rights. People buying and selling ammo is the least of our problems.

rakstr · Mar 3, 2013

And let's stop propagating and buying into the anti's framing phrases like "Gun Show loop Hole". The issue is personal sale rights (LIKE the ammo discussion). Never retreat this easily.

Side by Side said:
Let's work on Straw Purchase's,Face to Face sale's, and the Gun Show loop Hole. These will help protect our firearm rights. People buying and selling ammo is the least of our problems.

captainjohnsofd · Mar 3, 2013

Thinking it is a state to state issue- NJ has screwed up laws about purchase of handgun ammo requiring a NJ firearms ID card issued by NJSP- rifle and shotgun ammo do not require the card- go figure

ladyT · Mar 3, 2013

gregintenn said:
If so, why doesn't the BATFE make themselves useful and start prosecuting these folks?

I'm all for free market principles, but these folks standing in line at WalMart, waiting on an ammo shipment in order to resale is quite unseemly in my opinion.

You assume that those of us standing in line to purchase ammo are going to resell it. Not true. I've been standing in those lines and many are folks who just purchased their first gun. They need ammo. Myself, well I got caught with a short supply of the ammo in 9mm and 45acp which are the two calibers I shoot the most. So I'm forced to stand in line and wait and hope someone gets ammo in at a price I'm willing to pay. So far I've been very lucky with regards to 9mm,223/556 and 22lr. Its the 45acp that I'm still short on but don't worry I'll be standing in line tomorrow morning in hopes of finding some 45acp that I can afford to put on the shelf.

Ammo is the new Milk. Instead of ot being the occasional purchase its now a weekly purchase

gregintenn · Mar 3, 2013

Thank you for setting me straight, guys. Upon further searching, it is illegal to manufacture (read sell reloads) without an FFL, but you don't need one to sell commercially manufactured ammo.

Perhaps the IRS could make some of these guys sweat. It isn't easy getting new people into the shooting sports when ammo isn't to be found.

gregintenn · Mar 3, 2013

ladyT said:
You assume that those of us standing in line to purchase ammo are going to resell it. Not true. I've been standing in those lines and many are folks who just purchased their first gun. They need ammo. Myself, well I got caught with a short supply of the ammo in 9mm and 45acp which are the two calibers I shoot the most. So I'm forced to stand in line and wait and hope someone gets ammo in at a price I'm willing to pay. So far I've been very lucky with regards to 9mm,223/556 and 22lr. Its the 45acp that I'm still short on but don't worry I'll be standing in line tomorrow morning in hopes of finding some 45acp that I can afford to put on the shelf.

Ammo is the new Milk. Instead of ot being the occasional purchase its now a weekly purchase

Sir, I am not referring to people purchasing ammo for their own use, nor am I assuming anything. I see the same guys asking astronomical prices on local classified sites for newly purchased ammo day after day. Those are the people I'm referring to.

I am glad to see people preparing themselves. I am not glad to see jerks taking advantage of them.

RussC · Mar 3, 2013

I just msde $2, 500 selling ak ammo.

In Utah you can sell ammo all day long and there is a free website to move your ammo for folks living in Utah.

PM me if you live in Utah and want to buy sell or trade ammo.

Russ

MichiganScott · Mar 3, 2013

rakstr said:
And let's stop propagating and buying into the anti's framing phrases like "Gun Show loop Hole". The issue is personal sale rights (LIKE the ammo discussion). Never retreat this easily.

Yep. No new gun laws, period.

Skunkhome · Mar 3, 2013

gregintenn said:
I'm all for free market principles,

. Are you really?
If so I don't know how the second half of your statement squares with that.

gregintenn said:
but these folks standing in line at WalMart, waiting on an ammo shipment in order to resale is quite unseemly in my opinion.

If you can't get ammo or can't get ammo at a marketable price from your jobber, or wholesaler then what in the world is wrong with going to a source that is more reasonable. If you are in the business it isn't free to go to Walmart and wait in line to get a few boxes for retail. It certainly isn't as cost effective as calling your wholesaler and having 50,000 rounds of ammo delivered to your door, if they aren't jacking their prices up. Buying cheap and selling high is the key to business. If the customer is buying at a price they think is "reasonable" then who cares where it comes from as long as the ammo in the boxes isn't counterfeit or stolen. A customer who buys ammo with a Walmart retail sticker at a gun show either is blind or has made the decision to buy the ammo they have in their hand rather than gamble on finding it at Walmart. As for the retailer who fails to remove old stickers, they are just running the risk of missing the sale, but then there is the guy standing behind them that will probably not care.

The only one issue I have is the wholesaler who is also a retailer and sales to their retail customers at prices that undercut their dealers. I don't want some government to tell the wholesaler they can't do that. I just don't do business with them or at least not on items they choose to sell unfairly.

Saying you are all for free markets doesn't make it so!

don1958 · Mar 3, 2013

Personally, I liken it to purchasing tickets to the "big game" or "hot concert". You always have someone who has purchased tickets who have no intention of actually using them, except to resell them for a profit. Not illegal, per se, but not necessarily on the high road of business deals.

Unlike tickets, the expiration date on the ammo shortage is an unknown. At some point, these jokers are going to buy a cartload of ammo they probably don't even have a weapon for and are going to get stuck with it.

"Reaping and sowing"

Isn't selling ammo for profit illegal without an FFL?

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