.41 Magnum Defensive Rounds....

It was a nice day yesterday so was able to get out and do some chronographing and shooting. Would have liked to have a little more time to do some water expansion tests but was not to be.

The following are a few of the loads tested mainly trying to determine what might work well with the lightweight/short barrel .41 Magnums like the Mountain Gun, 657 3", Night Guard and Personal Defense revolvers.

First tested was the 180 grain total copper round from C.O.P.

4" Mountain Gun....1083/1115/1070 (1084 average)

2.5" 357NG...........1060/1055/1021 (1045 average)

This WD40 can had been left out overnight and was frozen solid...







Recoil was very manageable with both guns...

Next was the Federal 180 with the total copper Barnes Bullet...

4" Mountain Gun.......1204/1238/1283 (1241 average)

2.5" 327NG..............1128/1155/1148 (1143 average)

Recoil was ok in the MG but less than comfortable with the NG.



Next were some home brew...

195 grain MiHic hollow point full wadcutter. I can't find my notes but believe the first was 7.0 Unique and the second load 8.0 of Unique.

4" MG...........1128/1155/1098 (1127 average)

2.5" 357NG....1082/1078/1095 (1085 average)


4" MG............1230/1268/1245 (1247 average)

2.5" 357NG.....decided the recoil was a little much....not tested.





The bullet turned inside out and the base came through the off side...pieces of the HP were later found in the ice...







Next load tested was a home cast 205 grain lead bullet with and incredible .37 Meplat. Load was 8.0 grains of Unique. Mould is available from Accurate Molds....very impressive...

4" MG..............1001/963/965 (976 average)

2.5" NG............941/849/893 (915 average)

Can shot with a 3" 657...



Cut a larger hole going in than the full wadcutter did...



...and much larger hole going out...



Load was very controllable from the light weight NG..


Last load tested was a 230 grain Keith style SWC from Leadhead Bullet. This rendition has a larget meplat than the original Keith design. This was backed by 8.0 grains of Unique and has been my regular carry load while in the field with a 4" 357 PD. Recoil is vary manageable.

4" 357 PD..........986/1010/996 (1000 average)

2.5" 357 NG.......933/924/955 (937 average)


My 357 NG shoots several inches high with standard 210 grain bullets. With bullets in the 165-190 grain range much closer to POA. Still some more testing to do but for now I think that when I carry the NG the best bang for the buck without having the snot kicked out of your hand is the C.O.P. ammo. It can be had over on GunBroker for $165 a case of 250 rounds which is a lot cheaper than most jacketed .41 ammo is going for.

Bob

Your best bet in my humble and mildly knowledgeable opinion would be the Winchester 175 grain Silvertip. Hard casts are great for large game but men do not fit into that category.

..a few more pics from some shooting last year...

NG with 210 grain Berry's Plated bullet with 8.0/Unique (950 fps)



NG with 195 HPWC...




Tough plastic powder container filled with water...



Entrance hole...



Blew top off the jug but the bullet stayed inside...





...if I recall correctly the large piece which is the base of the bullet made it out the other side and was found about six feet behind the jug sitting on he hard snow crust..

..another victim....

3" 657 with Federal 180 Barnes HP....



....does not do pretty things to its victims...



...nothing beats velocity....for steel guns this is a real hard round to beat for self-defense...

195s....Matts is no longer marketing these for some reason...I as lucky enough to get a mound on the last group buy over on the Cast Boolit Forums...



Run into a vest insert...




...your ammo also can double for a shot glass...

Thanks for sharing Bob.

I am learning a lot....especially that WD-40 will freeze, or was that water?

I have been carrying Winchester 180gr JHP for several years, but have not been able to find any more for sale. I t may be time to look in other avenues and your testing is leading the way.

...no argument here...Silvertip is an excellent round. Some peoples theory on stopping someone varies however... The .45 Colt round with a 255 round nose flat point has been a proven stopper of men...

Bob

...no, I had used up all the WD and refilled with water.

Other tests from two years ago...

...if you gotta get through something before you get to the target..this is the round...







It went through the carton, blowing it apart and the four backup jugs then buried itself in the vest insert...and cracked the backup jug behind it.... No other .41 round came close to this performance. All the others stopped in the second to third jug...

Great round that was only on the market a couple of years....













The whole tests are here...more to come next spring...

...a few bullets tests... - 24hourcampfire


Bob

Awesome thread. Thanks for sharing the fun. The 41 is too much gun for me tho.

...once you have the right gun and ammo combination you might be surprised. With a .41 you are not as dependent on velocity as you are with a .35 caliber gun...

Bob

badge said:

Your best bet in my humble and mildly knowledgeable opinion would be the Winchester 175 grain Silvertip. Hard casts are great for large game but men do not fit into that category.

Click to expand...

To the OP, an absolutely super thread, many thanks.

I agree with Badge re Silvertip in the factory load category. Not easy to find much in the way of factory SD ammo in .41; Silvertip (still mfg'd?) seems the best. While the OP does not test it, the old .41 SWC service load is no joke, either.

The late NYPD gunfighter Jim Cirillo never stopped looking for the ideal handgun stopper load, even long after retirement from the cops and the Feds. I remember a magazine article (or book chapter) he wrote, in which he believed a .41 Mag load with a wadcutter bullet, his handload, would be ideal. I do not recall whether it was cup pointed. Does anyone? I know he carried a .40 Glock at the end of his life, a bore close to .41.

Is this a great thread, or what?

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I have to look but I think my copy of Cirillo's book is out on loan. His "Fellon Grabber" loads were a HP design. In the semi-auto calibers they had a nose cone glued on that would come off on impact and the ragged HP would open up very quickly.

I believe his Glock was a .40 caliber but as I recall it was a 10mm not a .40 S&W...

Bob

For those that appreciate the .41 magnum as I do you have my respect. I'd sooner tote a .41 than a .44 magnum although the ole' .45 Colt is also a winner when loaded properly. As I remember, Sheriff Buford Pusser, god rest him, carried a .41 magnum loaded with a 170 grain loading. I believe there is someone on this board who loaded the rounds for him. Either way it's a grand round and certainly will not fail you if you do your part.

Thanks for the test SuperMan. I carry the Winchester 175gr STHP for decades in my 58 and other .41s. Main reason is the availability of the load. Only place I've seen lots of .41 mag for sale was in Alaska two years ago (both Anchorage and Fairbanks).


CD

badge said:

Your best bet in my humble and mildly knowledgeable opinion would be the Winchester 175 grain Silvertip. Hard casts are great for large game but men do not fit into that category.

Click to expand...

That would be my recommendation also. The Winchester® load is very accurate & low recoil; and the load I use for SD.

Silvertips have been my carry load in my 57 for over 30 years. Accurate and reliable with very manageable recoil.

The only complaint about Silvertips was lack of penetration in 357 Magnum, 38 Special and 9MM. Penetration was never a problem in 41 Magnum, 10MM or 44 Magnum. It is an excellent defense load in those calibers. Plus they look like the ammo the Lone Ranger carried.

Shot a few of the 180 C.O.P. ammo yesterday from a Taurus Titanium Tracker...very controllable and put 5 rounds in a palm size group at 23 yards double action....

Also shot some of those 205 grain cast Accurate bullets and they did about the same...

Bob

Good info. Thanks for posting.

I was wondering why you were complaining about the recoil of your 357NG in the first post. Now that I see it's picture I know why. I only shoot my Nightguards with the factory rubber grips on. The wood grips are on for show, not the range. I have forgotten to change them before I went to the range & my old hands didn't like it. They're just too lightweight but shooting the lighter bullets helps.

Does your 357NG extract magnum loads okay? Mine always has sticky extraction issues before my 657-5 Classic Hunter does. It's chambers seem to have less taper to them. That's the only reason I can see for it. How's yours?

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