38 special plus p 158 LSWCHP vs Hornady CD 110 ammo?

Hapworth said:
Think you mean Hornady's Critical Duty line, which is barrier blind and intended for LE; Critical Defense is built for civilian defense and isn't a barrier resistant round.

Excellent choice on Speer GDSB -- one of the best out there.
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I was indeed referring to Critical Defense. I base my statements on this test by DocGKR. The initial test was disappointing, but the subsequent one with a "revised" FTX demonstrated reliable expansion through 4LD. I opine that true "barrier blind" rounds aren't as critical for civilian SD scenarios as they are for LE ones, but are to be considered a bonus if and when they're available.

Also, thank you. I got tired of having to scrub lead from my Chief's bore and charge holes. :D

ETA: I wanted to make sure, but a quick glance at Hornady's LE website reveals that there is no 110 gr. FTX available in their Critical Duty line.
 
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CoMF said:
I was indeed referring to Critical Defense. I base my statements on this test by DocGKR. The initial test was disappointing, but the subsequent one with a "revised" FTX demonstrated reliable expansion through 4LD. I opine that true "barrier blind" rounds aren't as critical for civilian SD scenarios as they are for LE ones, but are to be considered a bonus if and when they're available.

Also, thank you. I got tired of having to scrub lead from my Chief's bore and charge holes. :D

ETA: I wanted to make sure, but a quick glance at Hornady's LE website reveals that there is no 110 gr. FTX available in their Critical Duty line.
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Definitional distinction, then: denim isn't considered a barrier in regards to FBI protocol tests or loads designed to be barrier blind; those loads are made for maintaining trajectory and structural integrity through ordinary doors and walls, windshields and other common barriers LE face -- hence Critical Duty.

Critical Defense was built, per Hornady, to perform adequately in common civilian defense situations, where Hornady presumes barriers are an unlikely issue.

So by design, yes, Critical Defense will perform against standard FBI protocols, but isn't designed to when faced with wood, glass, etc.
 
Hapworth said:
Remington makes their version of the FBI load -- .38 Special +P 158 grain LSWHP -- under their HTP line now, but it's very difficult to find.

The aforementioned Buffalo Bore version of the FBI load is excellent, but get the Standard version, not Heavy (+P) to stay at FBI load numbers.
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Chief38 and others have chronographed the Remington HTP stuff and found it significantly watered down from the good FBI load of theirs that I carried daily for over fifteen years.

The Buffalo Bore standard-pressure 158gr. LSWCHP with gas check clocks almost exactly identical to the older Remington FBI load. Like the Remington the bullet is very soft lead for better expansion, the gas check reduces leading, and the powder mix produces less flash than the older stuff.
 
Hapworth said:
So by design, yes, Critical Defense will perform against standard FBI protocols, but isn't designed to when faced with wood, glass, etc.
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That's correct. Sorry, I should've mentioned that I was specifically referring to heavy clothing as an intermediate barrier. :o

Then again, light-for-caliber bullets generally perform poorly when they encounter automotive steel, windshields, and building materials as intermediate barriers.
 
shouldazagged said:
Chief38 and others have chronographed the Remington HTP stuff and found it significantly watered down from the good FBI load of theirs that I carried daily for over fifteen years....
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Indeed, I follow and am hugely thankful for chief38's efforts. I'm not aware, though, of others also getting lower velocities; that chief38 did is reason for pause, but can't be considered that last word on the HTP version -- too many variables and too limited a data set.

I'd like to see but have yet to find properly done FBI protocol testing on the new version; if it gets between 12" and 18" and opens up out of a snubby, the other numbers might not matter.
 
shouldazagged said:
Chief38 and others have chronographed the Remington HTP stuff and found it significantly watered down from the good FBI load of theirs that I carried daily for over fifteen years.
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Geez, I guess it's actually probably a good thing that I can not find any!!
 
Hapworth said:
Indeed, I follow and am hugely thankful for chief38's efforts. I'm not aware, though, of others also getting lower velocities; that chief38 did is reason for pause, but can't be considered that last word on the HTP version -- too many variables and too limited a data set.

I'd like to see but have yet to find properly done FBI protocol testing on the new version; if it gets between 12" and 18" and opens up out of a snubby, the other numbers might not matter.
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I agree about the testing; but I'm sitting here, trying to recall where I read that someone else also clocked the HTP at lower velocities from two- and four-inch barrels. I'm afflicted with CRS tonight.

I've always been impressed with the FBI load's long history of effectiveness in real-world use. I tend to favor heavy bullets. But I'm also impressed that NYPD and LAPD have adopted the
Speer Gold Dot 135gr. +P short-barrel loading for all .38 Special revolvers. If I could find that one I might try it. But I know the Buffalo Bore stuff is available.
 
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