Hi friends, went and tried some liberty defence today in my 40c and let me say WOW as a somewhat new shooter ( 1yr) I realy like this stuff, no recoil ( well hardly) and makes my gun feel as though it's empty due to almost weighing nothing, shot pretty well with it for a noob, there are video's on youtube about this ammo, just thought I'd share my experience with it today

I bought a couple boxes as well ... if all goes to plan and they shoot without any issues and are accurate I am looking forward to carrying these in my shield for the reduced weight and recoil with really from what I can tell by the reviews and gel tests not much reduction on self defense ballistics at all.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

Well, tnoutdoors9 did a test and the results were dismal:


This looks like a HUGE reduction in effectiveness.

As far as the reduced weight goes, it's really nothing. The difference between the 50 gr. Liberty and a standard 115 gr. bullet is 65 gr. Multiply by 8 for your Shield mag and the difference = 520 gr. which = 1.188 ounces. That's really nothing from a carry standpoint.

Grains to Ounces conversion

As far as reduced recoil goes, sure. But as the test above notes, with this puny round you're going to need fast followup shots, and lots of them.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

And there is a youtube review of this beating IIIA body armor.

I believe the OP stated 40s&w and you talk about 9mm. There is more of a difference between 60gr and 180gr in the 40.

If you're interested in defeating body armor, then I guess the Liberty ammo is for you. But how much energy and penetration capability is left after passing through the body armor? Not much I think. I haven't seen a good gel test. MAC's test only used a block of clay. I'm more interested in ammo that has a proven track record and meets FBI protocols. Examples include the Gold Dots and HSTs in 9mm, .40 and .45.

You are correct that I was talking about the 9mm weight difference. My mistake. The weight difference for the .40 between 60 and 180 gr. is a whopping 2.19 ounces, vs. only 1.18 ounces for the 9mm.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

These seem like a good gel test to me.

I mean really ... Any damn defense / JHP ammo is gonna put a guy down let's get real here people.

Seems like a good test to me here .......

'

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

There are a couple other gel test I saw before going to buy these and they all looked solid.

If they cycle through my Shield with zero issues and are accurate and have less recoil these will be on my hip loaded at all times.

I haven't found anything to say these are not solid self defense rounds yet.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

In post #5 I was making the point that I've not seen any gel tests of the bullets AFTER passing through body armor, in response to the statement in post #4 about MAC's review on youtube of the Liberty bullet defeating body armor.

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

there is another video where they destroy a ham, different from the one above, I watched a ton of video's concerning this ammo before I bought it and I'm pleased with my purchase it's everything they say it is as far as I'm consirned, I've shot it and like it, and I know a few LEO's that switched to it also in their carry gun's, and pretty accurate stuff also

LOL .. Ya I saw that one too .... not a fan of test like that but hey they do show the damage.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

I've gone through 100 rounds of the .38 civil defense in my new 340PD. I like it. Like most ammo I've ever used, it's more accurate then I. New gun, inexperienced with revolvers and in a big learning curve but I like the reduced recoil of this ammo. Test results aside, I plan on using more of this ammo up and until I get more accustomed to shooting this fine revolver. Yes, expensive training ammo for sure.

The new "fad" ammo. Glaser now becomes the old "fad" ammo.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

I bet change on anything in your life just absolutely kills you doesn't it? LOL

Till I read somewhere or see reviews that say this stuff is junk ... for the reduced weight and recoil with just about the same ballistic results of other top defense rounds I will carry them.

I will just use them for carry ... I will keep my house guns locked and loaded with Gold-Dots at all times.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

Nope, change doesn't bother me a bit.
What does bother me is self defense ammo that does not meet FBI penetration standards.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

You nailed it Chief!

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USAF, 69-92
Vietnam, 72-73

has it even been tested? It's fairly new

I would assume they just don't test everything that comes to market right away.

Is there somewhere that says it does not meet those standards?

If so I would be inclined to agree, but it seems like that may just be an assumption is all.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

Shot a couple boxes .... first off I was not impressed with the reduced recoil, as far as I can tell from alternating a couple mags of these and Speer gold-dot 124 grain rounds I could feel absolutely no reduced recoil. The recoil felt a ting different but it was still just a snappy as the standard high power JHP rounds.

So on that front for me I see no advantage.

At this point I still like the rounds do to the BIG time reduced weight. They will no doubt stop a threat if ever needed and I shot them very accurately overall (same as the others).

I will carry them due to the reduced weight and accuracy being just as good ... I just wanted to comment on the recoil reduction that I read about that these are suppose to have ... I Didn't Feel It At All

Still up in the air on these at this point since 1 of the main two points for me is now gone ... but they are so light it makes your carry pistol much more comfortable.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

Every time some wonder bullet is introduced people flock to it like bears to honey. And there's no reason to.

There are better choices in self defense ammo with a proven track record.

We all take chances in life. Ammo selection should not be one of them.

And why buy a 40 S&W and dumb it down with low recoil ammo?

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

See post number 3.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

No when I asked "has it ever been tested" it was an reply to a comment saying it hasn't met FBI standards.

That YouTube video on post #3 really isn't "Tested"

I am not 100% sold on this ammo yet but it is just funny to me how everyone fears change and dismisses anything new without any proof one way or the other.

And I don't see a major issue with the video in post#3 ..... looks like it'll put someone down to me.

I will laugh if this **** gets tested by more reputable sources and it turns out to be the cats weow ... I bet everyone will be carrying it then. LOL

But it does damage from what I can see and ya after shooting it I see no recoil reduction so that's off the table in my opinion ... accuracy is just as good so that's no biggie ... really the ONLY advantage I see to this stuff is the reduced weight which when carrying it MORE Then Welcomed.

Time will tell I guess but for now I will run it since really I see now review or video that doesn't look good to me and I like the reduced weight and lead free round.

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

Ok, Ok, how much money are you making on this junk?

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

The video Mr. Falconman listed were verifiable proof that these rounds are gimmick/garbage. The fragments will basically stick into the muscle wall doing minimal damage of no significance, and the center core couldn't even make it to the 12 inch IWBA protocol. The core is the only thing that might hit an organ and do any damage of value, and what you have is a projectile that penetrates very poorly, and only has the diameter of the original bullet. This makes it inferior to FMJ or virtually every other traditional hollow point. For a projectile that stays the same diameter of the original bullet, it does not punch as deep, or has the ability to punch through solid bone, as a solid, and for an under penetrater, does not mushroom or flower out to create a wound channel that is, at least, somewhat impressive.

Simply put, there is absolutely no advantage to this round as far as terminal ballistics are concerned. In fact, these are probably the worst possible bullets to get outside of Safety Slugs. They are designed to fail, as is seen in all tests done on the round. There is nothing at all to suggest they have any value, and in fact, everything points to their negative values. This bullet and round are not simply subpar, average, or even below average, but rather among the very worst in existence. The only purpose I can see for these bullets is to use on rats with the intent of reducing over penetration. I try to find some good in this, but I can't.

Mr. Falconman, we are not afraid of change. We are not sitting and sweating that the new bullets or designs will destroy everything we've held near and dear. We are not afraid some sort of cool kid on a skateboard with his baseball cap turned backwards and sunglasses on will ride into the local shooting gallery with the new pack of calibers, bullets, and guns, and go "Yeah, shooting old school is lame, you old codgers will never be as cool as me with THIS". We simply won't buy into a product we know is utter gimmicky garbage.

Nobody is afraid that it will come out successful in a test, because it can't, because of physics. Its not going to be the cat's meow because its a designed failure. The old codgers shooting their "dumb" wadcutters, and those crusty old semi-jacketed and jacketed hollow points are not going to be blown away by this new amazing technology.

I fear as old hunters become a smaller section of the shooting community that there is a real risk that gimmick rounds like RIP, Halo, or Safety Slugs, will take hold with a generation of shooters who have only hit paper, and never seen what it takes to kill. People who shoot only paper miss out on a lot, and eventually that lack of direct knowledge can wear away at well established truths.

It doesn't even take an old codger to figure out a bullet that light just ain't gonna cut it

One Miiiillliiooonn Dollaaars! LOL

Everyone in here is always so on edge I swear!!!

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M&P9 Shield, M&P9 CORE, S&W.38

What ammo do you use? Bet at one time it was a "new wonder bullet". Maybe we should all stick with 50cal muskets!

Right before this past Christmas my wife was heading out at dawn to visit the grandkids. She called me moments after leaving to tell me that a deer had been clipped by a car at the back of our property and to get back there and dispatch it. I got my Glock 40 caliber sub compact out of my truck and walked back there. It was a four point buck with a busted up back leg. I shot it with the Liberty Civil Defense load that I carry. . .one to the chest and then one to the back of the head to make sure that it was absolutely dead. I then walked back to my truck and drove down to the local store to tell my friend who works there that there was a deer dead off the road at my property line, and to go get him if he wanted some free meat. The next day I asked him how it went with the deer. He told me that the shot to the chest made such a mess it ruined a lot of meat. He wanted to know what I shot it with since he had never seen so much damage resulting from a chest shot. So, if you are wondering about what the Civil Defense loads will really do on something besides a testing medium, this is what it will do on an adult deer at 5 yards. It is what I carry, and I carry it because it is by far the best self-defense round ever loaded.

Nope, never fell for that gimmick. I do my research BEFORE buying self defense ammo. I don't buy it and then run to the internet to ask what everyone thinks.

Win Ranger 127gr +P+ or Federal HST 124gr.

Corbon DPX when I can find it.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Shootingthebull410 on YouTube tested the Liberty out of the Sig 938. As I recall, it didn't do so well out of a short barrel. If the Liberty Ammo does work, I believe a longer barrel than what a Shield has may be needed. One can always stack the deck like my friend does, 2 rounds of liberty then alternates with Speer Gold Dots.