Hi friends, went and tried some liberty defence today in my 40c and let me say WOW as a somewhat new shooter ( 1yr) I realy like this stuff, no recoil ( well hardly) and makes my gun feel as though it's empty due to almost weighing nothing, shot pretty well with it for a noob, there are video's on youtube about this ammo, just thought I'd share my experience with it today
Liberty Civil Defence
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falconman515
Member
I bought a couple boxes as well ... if all goes to plan and they shoot without any issues and are accurate I am looking forward to carrying these in my shield for the reduced weight and recoil with really from what I can tell by the reviews and gel tests not much reduction on self defense ballistics at all.
Well, tnoutdoors9 did a test and the results were dismal:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hZMZM1l04[/ame]
This looks like a HUGE reduction in effectiveness.
As far as the reduced weight goes, it's really nothing. The difference between the 50 gr. Liberty and a standard 115 gr. bullet is 65 gr. Multiply by 8 for your Shield mag and the difference = 520 gr. which = 1.188 ounces. That's really nothing from a carry standpoint.
Grains to Ounces conversion
As far as reduced recoil goes, sure. But as the test above notes, with this puny round you're going to need fast followup shots, and lots of them.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hZMZM1l04[/ame]
This looks like a HUGE reduction in effectiveness.
As far as the reduced weight goes, it's really nothing. The difference between the 50 gr. Liberty and a standard 115 gr. bullet is 65 gr. Multiply by 8 for your Shield mag and the difference = 520 gr. which = 1.188 ounces. That's really nothing from a carry standpoint.
Grains to Ounces conversion
As far as reduced recoil goes, sure. But as the test above notes, with this puny round you're going to need fast followup shots, and lots of them.
Fire75
Member
And there is a youtube review of this beating IIIA body armor.
I believe the OP stated 40s&w and you talk about 9mm. There is more of a difference between 60gr and 180gr in the 40.
If you're interested in defeating body armor, then I guess the Liberty ammo is for you. But how much energy and penetration capability is left after passing through the body armor? Not much I think. I haven't seen a good gel test. MAC's test only used a block of clay. I'm more interested in ammo that has a proven track record and meets FBI protocols. Examples include the Gold Dots and HSTs in 9mm, .40 and .45.
You are correct that I was talking about the 9mm weight difference. My mistake. The weight difference for the .40 between 60 and 180 gr. is a whopping 2.19 ounces, vs. only 1.18 ounces for the 9mm.
You are correct that I was talking about the 9mm weight difference. My mistake. The weight difference for the .40 between 60 and 180 gr. is a whopping 2.19 ounces, vs. only 1.18 ounces for the 9mm.
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falconman515
Member
These seem like a good gel test to me.
I mean really ... Any damn defense / JHP ammo is gonna put a guy down let's get real here people.
Seems like a good test to me here .......
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0EVjsX6G98[/ame]'
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9G0Je8z9J0[/ame]
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falconman515
Member
There are a couple other gel test I saw before going to buy these and they all looked solid.
If they cycle through my Shield with zero issues and are accurate and have less recoil these will be on my hip loaded at all times.
I haven't found anything to say these are not solid self defense rounds yet.
If they cycle through my Shield with zero issues and are accurate and have less recoil these will be on my hip loaded at all times.
I haven't found anything to say these are not solid self defense rounds yet.
In post #5 I was making the point that I've not seen any gel tests of the bullets AFTER passing through body armor, in response to the statement in post #4 about MAC's review on youtube of the Liberty bullet defeating body armor.
there is another video where they destroy a ham, different from the one above, I watched a ton of video's concerning this ammo before I bought it and I'm pleased with my purchase it's everything they say it is as far as I'm consirned, I've shot it and like it, and I know a few LEO's that switched to it also in their carry gun's, and pretty accurate stuff also
falconman515
Member
LOL .. Ya I saw that one too .... not a fan of test like that but hey they do show the damage.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4otF3-oH7M[/ame]
I've gone through 100 rounds of the .38 civil defense in my new 340PD. I like it. Like most ammo I've ever used, it's more accurate then I. New gun, inexperienced with revolvers and in a big learning curve but I like the reduced recoil of this ammo. Test results aside, I plan on using more of this ammo up and until I get more accustomed to shooting this fine revolver. Yes, expensive training ammo for sure.
REM 3200
US Veteran
The new "fad" ammo. Glaser now becomes the old "fad" ammo. 
falconman515
Member
The new "fad" ammo. Glaser now becomes the old "fad" ammo.
I bet change on anything in your life just absolutely kills you doesn't it? LOL
Till I read somewhere or see reviews that say this stuff is junk ... for the reduced weight and recoil with just about the same ballistic results of other top defense rounds I will carry them.
I will just use them for carry ... I will keep my house guns locked and loaded with Gold-Dots at all times.
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REM 3200
US Veteran
I bet change on anything in your life just absolutely kills you doesn't it? LOL
Till I read somewhere or see reviews that say this stuff is junk ... for the reduced weight and recoil with just about the same ballistic results of other top defense rounds I will carry them.
I will just use them for carry ... I will keep my house guns locked and loaded with Gold-Dots at all times.
Nope, change doesn't bother me a bit.
What does bother me is self defense ammo that does not meet FBI penetration standards.
falconman515
Member
has it even been tested? It's fairly new
I would assume they just don't test everything that comes to market right away.
Is there somewhere that says it does not meet those standards?
If so I would be inclined to agree, but it seems like that may just be an assumption is all.
falconman515
Member
Shot a couple boxes .... first off I was not impressed with the reduced recoil, as far as I can tell from alternating a couple mags of these and Speer gold-dot 124 grain rounds I could feel absolutely no reduced recoil. The recoil felt a ting different but it was still just a snappy as the standard high power JHP rounds.
So on that front for me I see no advantage.
At this point I still like the rounds do to the BIG time reduced weight. They will no doubt stop a threat if ever needed and I shot them very accurately overall (same as the others).
I will carry them due to the reduced weight and accuracy being just as good ... I just wanted to comment on the recoil reduction that I read about that these are suppose to have ... I Didn't Feel It At All
Still up in the air on these at this point since 1 of the main two points for me is now gone ... but they are so light it makes your carry pistol much more comfortable.
So on that front for me I see no advantage.
At this point I still like the rounds do to the BIG time reduced weight. They will no doubt stop a threat if ever needed and I shot them very accurately overall (same as the others).
I will carry them due to the reduced weight and accuracy being just as good ... I just wanted to comment on the recoil reduction that I read about that these are suppose to have ... I Didn't Feel It At All
Still up in the air on these at this point since 1 of the main two points for me is now gone ... but they are so light it makes your carry pistol much more comfortable.
Every time some wonder bullet is introduced people flock to it like bears to honey. And there's no reason to.
There are better choices in self defense ammo with a proven track record.
We all take chances in life. Ammo selection should not be one of them.
And why buy a 40 S&W and dumb it down with low recoil ammo?
There are better choices in self defense ammo with a proven track record.
We all take chances in life. Ammo selection should not be one of them.
And why buy a 40 S&W and dumb it down with low recoil ammo?
REM 3200
US Veteran
falconman515
Member
See post number 3.
No when I asked "has it ever been tested" it was an reply to a comment saying it hasn't met FBI standards.
That YouTube video on post #3 really isn't "Tested"
I am not 100% sold on this ammo yet but it is just funny to me how everyone fears change and dismisses anything new without any proof one way or the other.
And I don't see a major issue with the video in post#3 ..... looks like it'll put someone down to me.
I will laugh if this **** gets tested by more reputable sources and it turns out to be the cats weow ... I bet everyone will be carrying it then. LOL
But it does damage from what I can see and ya after shooting it I see no recoil reduction so that's off the table in my opinion ... accuracy is just as good so that's no biggie ... really the ONLY advantage I see to this stuff is the reduced weight which when carrying it MORE Then Welcomed.
Time will tell I guess but for now I will run it since really I see now review or video that doesn't look good to me and I like the reduced weight and lead free round.
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