I've wondered what would happen if you vacuum sealed a box of ammo. If it is an ammo with a sealed bullet and primer.. would it evacuate the oxygen out of the case and cause problems? Or when powder burns, does it produce it's own oxygen? I know when you get a battle pack of ammo it is not vac sealed... Anyone have any experience or knowledge that would answer this question?

Maybe purge with an inert gas instead of vacuum. Just a guess.

Gunpowder has its own oxidizer.

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Back to back World War Champs.

I had a bunch of ammo I've kept in vacuum sealed bags (seal-a-meal) for camping and protection from moisture.

No problem has ever been encountered.

Yes, everything needed is contained in the powder and primer.

When you vacuum sealing anything, you are essentially putting 14.7 Pounds per Square Inch on all outside surfaces. I'm sure the case could take it but I'd watch:
OAL- if it changes in the process, you could affect pressures, accuracy etc.
Primer seating- If Primers move at all (although I thin it unlikely), you could have reliability and ignition issues.

That said, I think I'll toss a mix of reloads and factory ammo into the food sealer next time the wife has it out. Maybe I'll try a batch fully vacuumed and one just partially evacuated to keep the pressure change down. Results could be interesting.

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Dave

Thank you for your answers... It makes sense that gun powder produces its own oxygen... otherwise you could not shoot a firearm underwater...

I was asking because it seems like a sure way to protect ammo from the degradation. I guess it might be overkill since we see 50 year old ammo that still fires..

I'm not sure if I'd trust defensive ammo that was vacuum sealed "just in case" there was some issue.. but from what was said here.. that should not be a problem...

At the end of muzzleloader hunting season, I vacuum seal my Pyrodex pellets (they are in a plastic box that protects them from being crushed) to help keep moisture out.

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"Life is short, hunt hard"

How about simply tossing the ammo in either a used GI ammo can or one of the newly manufactured ones? I've cracked open sealed WWII cans and they smell like new. Anyone that has ever shot cans of surplus knows what I mean. I've seen the cans in flooded basements and the ammo stays dry.

No need to reinvent the wheel. I've vacuum packed gun parts and whole guns. The vacuum eventually fails and you end up with parts or whole firearms in the equivalent of a ZipLoc bag.

I was vacuum packing ammo back in the 80s. It didn't seem to matter one way or the other for center fire ammo. Good brand name ammo worked just fine, packed or not. EXCEPT for .22 RF. The RF I vacuum packed all shot 30 years later, the stuff I just stuck away had a very high fail to function rate.

Factory ammunition is some of the most durable goods you will ever encounter. As long as it's stored in a relatively cool and dry environment, it will out-last most of us. At this point I think vacuum wrapping ammunition for long term storage is absolutely just NOT necessary. Proper conditions are all that is needed. That said, I suppose if you live on the water or very humid environment that might be a reason to do so, but for most of us it's just not needed.

I hunt with some of my Dad's old Shot Shells that have paper hulls - from the 50's and 60/s - the Pheasants don't seem to now the difference.

I have shot WWll era .45acp rounds, late 40's and 50's .30-06 rounds and a variety of commercial Factory ammo from the 30-'s to the 70's without a hic-cup. I found a partial box of .38 Special ammo in a Garage while helping a friend clean up and it was soaked with oil. Never in my wildest imagination did I ever think it would work - but every single round went off!

So as long as you have a clean, cool and dry environment I wouldn't bother to do so. Just my personal opinion and YMMV.

As one of my first retirement projects, I just recently completed sorting and storing all of my ammunition in metal ammo cans. Tossed a couple bags of dessicant in each, labeled the outside, and stacked them up.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I tried it once with some 9mm handloads, with an eye toward long term storage. It lost its seal, but was still neatly packaged. I may try it again, but I think some form of airtight container would work as well.

Oh, forgot to mention....... when vacuum sealing something, any airborne moisture will get locked into the sealed ammo as you never get it all out! I prefer a cool / dry place where air is allowed to circulate.

Seriously - I have never had ammo just go bad - regardless of age. Sort of a non - issue to me (and I pay close attention to these type of things).

I have been using a Food Saver system to vacuum seal ammo both RF and CF for over 15 years. It is a great way to store loose rounds while protecting them from ammonia, water or oil damage. If you want absolute vacuum, just double bag it. I used to seal my S&W M 60 in one bag while SCUBA and snorkeling. The ammo in my BOB is in a Food Saver vacuum bag as we speak. About every year or every two years, I replace it with new and take the old out to shoot. Has worked like a charm. .................

The is no firearms related task that cannot be made more difficult by a Worrier or Perfectionist.

I really enjoy these threads because they confirm that my life is simple, basic, effective, and safe.

Close enough goes BANG! every time.

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S&WHF 366

Engineer1911 nailed it.

Powder stored in sealed containers has been found to be good 50 years and longer. Ammo even longer.

For even the most anal retentive person, long term storage, and I mean REALLY long term storage, is done well enough by just storing it in authentic military ammo cans. They are air tight with rubber seals around the lid, and that is more than is needed.

What you want to look for is what could be the wrong way to store ammo, not the best way.
If you avoid storing it in hot, wet or humid areas, then you are good to go.
Even a garage in a Southern state that gets normally humid and hot won't hurt ammo in the long term. Just don't put it where it can get rained on or in an open shed somewhere.

My own long term storage is done for convenience rather than protection, and what I do is to save larger plastic containers with screw on lids, like this or similar: (I happen to like Biscotti in the morning ).

I can fill one of those up with around 600 rounds of .223 or 1500 rounds of 9mm, screw on the cap snuggly, and put it away in a closet for future use... maybe LONG future use. Of course, with the ammo, I drop in a note to myself detailing the load information for that batch.

One consideration I do give to the ammo I store long term is that I don't handle it with my bare hands.
I wear gloves during all processes at the point of tumbling and going forward anyway, so I also wear gloves while handling my loaded ammo for storage in order to avoid body oils from causing long term tarnishing of the brass while in storage.

Oh jeez, maybe I'm the retentive one?

From muzzle loaders to modern ammo, maybe once have I had a malfunction regardless of how it's stored. Non issue.

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"The Dude abides"

Federal has 22's vacuum packed in a can.

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Don

Ever see the Chinese 7.62x39 packed in a big sardine can?
That may be vacuum packed.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

For what it's worth, I recently fired some ammo that went underwater during Katrina. It had soaked in salt water for 9 days after the storm, was quickly rinsed with fresh water, dried with a towel and placed in cardboard boxes. It sat on a shelf in the house (A/C and heat) for 10 years until I remembered about it. It all fired, though with no chronograph I don't know at what velocity. None sounded weak or bad and all hit the target with reasonable accuracy. I shot them all as I didn't trust them for self defense or in the house gun. It was a mixture of .38 Special and .45 ACP, all in commercial loadings, no GI sealed ammo.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

I vacuum seal ammo along with a desiccant pack and place it in a dry box along with another desiccant pack or two.

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- The Federalist #46 -

"Vacuum sealing" really is NOT a vacuum.
You are just removing the spare air.
The poster that suggested this will result in added pressure on the rounds forgets how weak these pumps really are.
Maybe more trouble than it is worth but I can't see it hurting.
A TRUE vacuum might eventually remove some of the humidity from the powder, making it slightly "hotter".
Only astronauts are going to have to worry about this.

As an internal ballistics nut, that is certainly one major experiment I would be fascinated by: Firing guns in space.
At the very least the bullet's flight would be somewhat different.
Internal ballistics might be as well due to the absence of air resistance inside the gun.
Keep me posted!

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

I have a few boxes of Winchester Super Speed 22LR from around 1939. Before I realized they may be collectible I shot most of one box and every round fired, and accurate too. If the environment in your home is comfortable to you your ammo should be comfortable also.

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S&W Armorer
Lost in the 50s

I would not want to sleep stacked up in the corner like my ammo. Further comment will just get me in trouble with the Humor Police .

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S&WHF 366

Firing a gun in outer space would have almost no effect on internal ballistics, but after leaving the barrel the bullet would travel in a straight line at the muzzle velocity until it encountered some other small object or the gravitational field of a large object or a black hole. That could take a very long time!

I believe I read where the Russian's did fire some kind of gun in space from one of their capsules early in the space race .. you might be able to research that ..

Well there is this:
Here Is the Soviet Union's Secret Space Cannon
Seems they were mostly interested in the recoil effects on the "station".
Can't find reference to any external ballistics studies.
Still, it was a gun designed for space and it did work using gas operated cycling.
A completely theoretical article on ballistics in low or no gravity is here:
What Would Happen If You Shot a Gun In Space?
Cosmonauts have regularly carried in space but the weapons were intended for use if they happened to land way off target in the middle of nowhere.
TP-82s were carried regularly on Soviet and Russian space missions
James Oberg has the most detailed discussion of this (with some nice pictures):
as of now, no guns aboard the space station, the option remains to put a pistol back on board a future mission.

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NEMO
"Everything 44"

All of the DCM USGI 30-06 ammo that I purchased in the 80s and 90s came in USGI ammo cans that were vacuum sealed at the factory when it was made. It was mostly LC'69 and LC'68 vintage, but all of it was vacuum sealed.

I have read that you should NOT put desiccant packages into sealed cans of ammo because it can pull the moisture from the priming compound in the primers, making it less likely to go bang.

So I should add a couple of tablespoons of water to each can so the primers pop easier when I'm using a gun with a weak mainspring?

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet, although I agree desiccants are not needed.

I simply don't see the point. I can be pretty OC about some things. That isn't one.

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Oh well, what the hell.

What is a safe level of humidity for non-sealed ammo?