Was it the ammo or was it the gun - Mag-Tech versus 686+

ISCS Yoda · Apr 7, 2016

So, this afternoon, as a respite from the drudgery of work, the boss decided a range outing was in order (hey, I didn't need any special invitation!) so I brought several guns to work (I could have brought them up to the office but it was unnecessary to drag all that iron around so it remained in the car's trunk) and a variety of ammunition. Let's talk about my very modern 4" 686+ and the Mag-Tech cartridges I was using.

One out of every cylinderful, more or less*, failed to fire. All had firing pin marks and the range officer called them light strikes. Then he added that it could be bad primers.

*I say more or less because some cylinders fired completely and a couple had several failures to fire.

When I was encountering this I would re-fire these cartridges. Only one fired on a subsequent try.

When I was done with the Mag-Tech rounds I switched to Speer Lawman ammunition - I had about 25 rounds. They all fired fine.

And you say.......?

bigwheelzip · Apr 7, 2016

I bought a case of Magtech 158FMJ on sale about a year ago, for use in my 686-6 Plus's. No failures at all. I won't buy more because it's very sooty.

Iggy · Apr 7, 2016

Well, maybe it's kinda like a little gal down in Loredo told me one night.

"Honey, I think your firin' pin is too short."

ISCS Yoda · Apr 7, 2016

Yes, Iggy, but the proper response is "It works for my purposes!"

I'll check the screws but the Speer ammunition was fine.

We'll see.

gen3guy · Apr 7, 2016

I suspect that the ammo is at fault here. Specifically the primers. The fact that the Speer Lawman ammo functioned flawlessly is very telling. Technically it is a "light strike" and it's also possible that if you tried firing that ammo in another firearm it would function perfectly.

I had a similar problem with a Charter Arms Bulldog (admittedly not a Smith & Wesson) and some reloads. The little revolver functions fine with any factory load but I get "light strikes" with my reloads using Winchester primers. When I put the rounds that failed to fire in my Super Blackhawk they all go bang. If I switch to CCI primers, the little Bulldog works 100%. You would probably have a hard time convincing Mag-Tech that their ammo is at fault so just switch to Speer Lawman and move on.

cjwils · Apr 7, 2016

A few years ago, I had a lot of trouble with Magtech 357 and 38 ammo failing to fire. That was in several different revolvers of different sizes and different brands. Those same revolvers all fired perfectly (and still fire perfectly) with several other brands of ammo and with all of my reloads. I am certain it was the Magtech ammo, and I have refused to buy any Magtech since then. Maybe they have fixed their problem by now, but I still refuse to buy Magtech.

soFlaNative · Apr 9, 2016

cjwils said:
I am certain it was the Magtech ammo, and I have refused to buy any Magtech since then. Maybe they have fixed their problem by now, but I still refuse to buy Magtech.

I hope so, just received some of their "Shootin' Size" 158 gr. LRN at a good price from sgammo. Never used these loads. Length was even with uniform primers. I'll just try a few cylinders each in a couple revolvers and see what happens.

BC38 · Apr 9, 2016

It is probably harder than average primer cups, but it wouldn't hurt to check the strain screw anyway, just to be sure. I mean, what does it cost to remove the grips, do a visual inspection, and put a screwdriver on the screw to check it, right?

Peak53 · Apr 9, 2016

did the failures happen in single action, double action, or both? Has there been any trigger work done?

gwpercle · Apr 9, 2016

This situation sounds like what happens when primers are not seated completely down into the pockets. The first blow doesn't fire them but seats them completely in the pocket , the second time around they fire.
And the Speer rounds all fired...points to ammo related and possibly primer related. Not hard to imagine a batch of cases not getting primers completely seated, or it could be any of several primer things.
Make sure all your screws are tightened and try again with some different ammo.
Make sure all the springs are stock. swapping out lighter springs for a lighter pull can cause reliability problems .
Gary

Nevada Ed · Apr 9, 2016

Ammo is ammo..............

49 out of 50 times it is the .................

Weapon.

Gitagun · Apr 10, 2016

Interesting. Over the last few weeks, I fired several hundred rounds of Magtech .38 and .357 through several weapons with 100% reliability and accuracy. I was so impressed that I switched my carry ammo to Magtech.

Any brand can have temporary problems. I have a box of Federal .357 magnum ammo from a few years ago that I was only able to fire a few rounds out of a box of 20. I got hard strikes and the ammo wouldn't fire in any gun. I fault the primers in that case. There is no return on ammo so I saved the box of ammo just for demo purposes.

Check your gun out thoroughly as others have mentioned. Then again, you may have bought some faulty ammo. There are no guarantees and if you shoot enough, you will find issues with any weapon or ammo.

PatriotX · Apr 10, 2016

Were you firing a mix of 38s and 357s?

Sometimes, when my revolvers get dirty during extended firing sessions, the crud ring in the cylinder doesn't allow the magnum rounds to seat fully without a bit of push.

If this happens, the hammer sometimes won't set off the primer, as the energy is spent seating the cartridge.

So it could be a combo of gun/ammo issues.

ISCS Yoda · Apr 12, 2016

Were you firing a mix of 38s and 357s?

Not at the same time but I did pop through a few Hornady .357s. I'll be double checking this. I'll check all the screws and everything before I shoot it agin.

did the failures happen in single action, double action, or both? Has there been any trigger work done?

Double action. 100% stock gun and it will stay that way; it doesn't need a thing as far as I'm concerned.

I have a 2.5" 686+ with trigger work - it's VERY slick but it's not really necessary. If I hadn't let the first gunsmith tinker with it (whilst he was making a holster for it - he was a leather crafter first and foremost) I wouldn't have needed the second gunsmith to make it right. The second time it became something of a rocket gun, the action is so smooth and slick.

But I like the original actions just fine as a rule.

Kanewpadle · Apr 12, 2016

As I stated in another thread, Mag Tech has had problems with hard/bad primers. The local indoor range has a box full of Mag Tech in several calibers that have hard/bad primers.

Otreb · Apr 12, 2016

Another vote for 'check strain screw'.
I shoot a lot of MT ammo, never a problem.

Was it the ammo or was it the gun - Mag-Tech versus 686+

ISCS Yoda

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bigwheelzip

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Iggy

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ISCS Yoda

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gen3guy

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cjwils

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soFlaNative

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BC38

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Peak53

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ISCS Yoda

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