Information — Stephen A. Camp

Naphtali · Jul 19, 2023

On his web site the late Stephen A. Camp has two test-analysis web pages — "38 special expansion tests" and "38 Special LSWCHP +P- Still a Top Load?". Text and photographs appear to show the "FBI" load when fired from 3–4-inch barreled revolver, to be somewhat superior in expansion and penetration to 9x19 mm self-defense ammunition available at the time when fired from most pistols.

Text, especially with included photographs, I found extremely persuasive. Unfortunately, the last experience I had with uniformed officers (long, long ago), my friends used S&W Model 28s with 357 Magnum ammunition. So I hope those having experience with 9s and "FBI" load in non-snubbies will furnish information.

SuperMan · Jul 20, 2023

Was with Dallas PD back in the 1970s and 80s. The Model 15 and 64 were standard issue along with the FBI load. Knew 9 officers personally who shot people, vehicles or other things with the FBI load and all but one of them changed guns and calibers after the shooting.

If you want a load like that that is much more effective, look at the Underwood, Lost River or Buffalo Bore +P versions of that ammo...they run over 1000 fps in snubbies and 1150+- in 4" guns. Puts the .38 Special at a whole knew level...

I was with DPD at the same time Stephen Camp was with the Denton Co. Sheriff under Jim Wilson. Spoke to him several times on the phone before his death. Turns out we even shot at some of the same matches but had never met in person.

He has a book all about lightweight snubbies.

The ammo isn't named, but my bet is that since this was during the time most agencies issued the FBI load, he was carrying it...results were not encouraging..

Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 | Police Magazine

chief38 · Jul 20, 2023

When I carried a Chief's Special M60 I used to carry Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP-GC +P. Out of the 1 7/8" bbl. they actually chronographed at 1,025 feet per second (avg.) in many repeated tests I did over the years. IMHO they are very heavy recoiling rounds but probably the best 38 special SD load out there! If you choose to actually carry them, shoot a few out of the carry gun you plan on using to see if you can handle the recoil in a practical sense. Be honest with your self!

If the BB is a bit much, the Speer GDHP 135 grain +P is probably second best. I have never been enamored by the old "FBI load".

I now carry a Sig P365 in 9mm.

rockquarry · Jul 20, 2023

I have no idea who Stephen Camp was, but a soft cast bullet at a decent velocity is all that's needed in a handgun chambering for any purpose for which the cartridge was designed. Probably won't shoot through steel or bullet proof vests or other material the gunfighting dreamers dwell upon, but it's still useful. What people refer to as the "FBI load" is far from obsolete. That load or something similar used by a skilled shooter should work well for many years to come.

I don't know why cast bullets aren't commercially loaded in the 9mm; they should work as well as they do in a .38 Special revolver.

Sistema1927 · Jul 20, 2023

I was fortunate enough to exchange messages with Mr. Camp prior to his death. He was a font of knowledge, especially when it came to the P35 Hi-Power.

Marshal Tom · Jul 20, 2023

Those who don't know of Stephen A. Camp should check out his website(High Powers and Handguns). A few years ago, I worked a security job at a high end resort here in Colorado. I worked with Stephen's best friend, former college roommate and fellow Denton police Officer at that job. While there, I purchased my friend's BHP that had been done up just like the one on Stephen A. Camp's web page. He sold it to me for a song because Stephen left him the one on the Web page and he didn't need two of them alike. I later called Russ to tell him that is he ever wanted to sell Stephen's #1 that I wanted to buy it. He then told me that it had been stolen out of his home along with some other guns.

SuperMan · Jul 20, 2023

Buffalo Bore also has a standard version that is going a little over 900 out of a snubbie...same as the Big Three +P from a 4"...

Model 15-4ever · Aug 23, 2023

The .38 Special 158 grain SWCHP factory loads have a long track record of success. A single story - one with many unusual, inconsistent and missing details - does not change that fact. Indeed, given the “facts” in the linked article, I doubt any other handgun and/or cartridge chambering would have had any differing effects. Perhaps a high powered rifle and better accuracy would have had a more favorable terminal effect.

I carried .38 and .357 revolvers early in my LE career and they were entirely satisfactory when needed. In retirement, I frequently carry revolvers with complete confidence.

Re: Buffalo Bore .38 Spl +P load. This energetic loading is equivalent to the .38-44 Heavy Duty loadings of the 1930s. While they will not blow up your J frame, pressures are very high and the recoil in the 5-shot guns is beyond noteworthy. This does nothing for your accuracy, especially multiple shots. While fine in medium frame guns - I handload an equivalent for use in K frames - you might consider them too much of a good thing in a small frame revolver. There are many effective lighter recoilling options for small frame guns that remain shootable.

No handgun or cartridge works 100% of the time to immediately incapacitate a hostile threat. Accurate shooting remains the definitive measure of incapacitating power. Sound decision-making determines how and whether you exercise that power.

Be safe.

Information — Stephen A. Camp

Naphtali

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rockquarry

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