As forum members know, a common thread on this forum over the years involves questions of what is the best caliber for shooting (fill in the blank). Caliber questions regarding the shooting of bears is probably the most common.

What is the best handgun caliber to shoot a rampaging chimp with? Like us, chimps are soft skinned animals, so I don't see needing to use something like a 44 Mag loaded with stout hard cast hunting loads.

My vote is for the 357 (revolver) and 10mm Auto (semiauto handgun).

As forum members know, a common thread on this forum over the years involves questions of what is the best caliber for shooting (fill in the blank). Caliber questions regarding the shooting of bears is probably the most common.

What is the best handgun caliber to shoot a rampaging chimp with? Like us, chimps are soft skinned animals, so I don't see needing to use something like a 44 Mag loaded with stout hard cast hunting loads.

My vote is for the 357 (revolver) and 10mm Auto (semiauto handgun).

From what I have read, I don't think the chioce of caliber is that important. I just want to know where I can buy Kevlar underwear.

I'd feel comfy with one of my 9x23s, but 10mm would be good, too, as would .357 mag. Now, zombie chimps might need more smackdown...

Chimps are stronger than men, and may have added resistance to bullets and shock. They also lack a human perception of what bullets do.

I think a .357 will do, and I'd probably use 158 grain Federal Hydra-Shoks. But other rounds will certainly suffice.

Keep in mind that placement is paramount. If the animal reaches you, it can do great damage within seconds.

Remember, the chimp in the news was shot several times (we don't know with what) and it crawled off to die in its cage.

I suspect the skull shape and heavy mandible in the jaw makes head shots less likely to be good than on humans. Too much rounded and beefed-up bone to deflect a bullet.

A big chimp is a very dangerous animal.


T-Star

Keep in mind that a 200 pound chimp shot through the heart with a .500 magnum still has about 8 seconds of mobility to rip your face off and shove your nuts up your bum.

Unless you get lucky and hit the spine or central nervous system on a large dangerous animal, be prepared to keep shooting it until it is down.

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Science plus Art

OK, that makes a really unattractive visual....

Save the last round for yourself.

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Since chimps don't know what guns are, unlike humans, they will not be trying to dodge a gun. Their lack of understanding should help to ensure some good shot placement.

A couple of these would do the trick:

Buffalo Bore 10mm Auto 180 gr. Speer UniCore JHP (1350 FPS and 728 FPE)

Buffalo Bore 357 Mag 158 gr. JHC (1475 FPS and 763 FPE).

Chimps are tough but not immune to the damage such rounds would do.

I don't know if chimps know what guns are or not. I suppose it depends on whether or not they had access to television. After all, if they can learn sign language, how to use a computer, and to smoke cigarettes and use tools... yeah they might be able to figure out guns. Come to think of it, have we taken into account that the chimp might have a gun of his own and be returning fire? Could happen.

I'd probably opt for a hi cap 45 auto loaded with 230grain FMJ.

A 2.75" rocket, one of a dozen or so fired from 500 feet up. An adult male chimp is far stronger than any human, and they are quick.

Cordially, Jack

The one you have with you.

A "lesser" gun on your person is going be a lot better than the "best" on at home, or even 20 feet away.

Forget the handgun, get a shotgun with slugs and / or buckshot. Apply, repeat as needed.

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195th Session FBINA

Simple, a proven man stopper, the 45 Long Colt with a 250 grain bullet and the case full of FFF black powder. If you can't stand the smoke, go to the more modern version which is the 45 ACP with a 230 gr bullet powered with smokeless powder at around 825 ft/sec.

Your lampoonery is commendable, lol.

I say go with the top proven man stoppers. After all, a chimp is 99% human right?

On a slightly more serious note, I think a snub nosed revolver makes a good raging animal backup gun with the theory being that it is the perfect weapon if the fight goes to close quarters. Can't go out of battery and there is no barrel preventing the gun from being pointed anywhere on the wild beast while it is feasting on your flesh.

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http://www.ericpuryear.com/2008/05/05/icon-field-armor-...-undershorts-review/

I actually own a pair of these. I never thought they might come in handy in case a raging chimp went wild on me. Ack, it doesn't seem that the kevlar extends to the front though.

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Yeah, but it's the 1% of the chimp that makes him want take my bannana that scares the **** out of me.

LOL

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Used to work in big city zoo years ago. I didn't work chimps - that was a speciality area as the zoo did daily chimp shows and the guys doing that work were as much trainer as keeper. I knew some of the guys fairly well and was in the chimp house regularly.

Chimps will hands down kill you. Chimp work was the most dangerous job in the zoo because of the training factor. Standard issue for the keepers was a combination 20 ga. gas gun and short billy, about the size of a sap. One of the guys gave me his and I think I still have it somewhere. I doubt it would have done much good. I'd just as soon try to stop nuclear radiation with a tinfoil hat.

A coworker, a 20 something fellow in his prime, was helping to hold down a chimp under a year old for a medical exam. Three or four keepers were holding the animal. The infant chimp pulled this fellow's hands up to his mouth and bit the end of a finger off. The keeper was helpless to stop it. I'd say the estimate of having 7 to 10 times the strength of a man is on the mark.

I'm not going to comment on the gun or load to use on chimps. I just think if you are close enough to shoot an angry, fast moving chimp, you better be mighty good or mighty lucky. If he gets his hands on you he is going to take you apart, and the person doing the autopsy won't even believe what they are seeing on the table.

I think apeshot is the load for chimps. Or is it grapeshot?

I hate it when I read something I posted and realize I left out a whole word. My post should have said "want to take" but at the time I was laughing at my own immature humor and trying to censor myself. I think that was about the third time I tried to type it without being offensive. Anyway, on to serious issues.

How would a chimp's fur impact a hollowpoint's ability to expand? Seriously, if denim fabric can change how a hollowpoint expands, that thick fur would have to have some effect. And what about all the vermin living in the fur? Chimps are always picking fleas from their fur. How many fleas would it take to clog a hollowpoint?

Whatever anti-chimp cartridge I used, I'd carry it in banana clips...

THIS HAS BEEN THE FUNNIEST F'n THREAD I'VE EVER READ!
THANKS!

I am just looking for honest opinions. What if the chimp was wearing a flea collar? Wouldn't you want to be able to change your ammo, knowing that you would not be dealing with the flea barrier?

I found a GI 1911A1 in .45ACP, loaded with Hardball, did the job just fine when the time was right.

While this thread has been somewhat tounge-in-cheek, there should be a concern among LEOs about exotic animals. How many agencies know of exotic animals in their jurisdiction? Are they prepared, both mentally and with the proper equipment, to deal with an escaped lion, chimp, or giant snake (last week there was a news story about an 18 foot snake that attacked a toddler)? In the last department I worked, we carried Glock 21s with Win Ranger ammo and a Rem 1187 12 guage with 00 buck. Tac officers also carried an AR-15 and we had two marksmen with .308 rifles. We had an exotic animal farm in the adjoining county. Were we prepared for an escaped lion or cougar? I doubt it. Game wardens routinely carry .30-06 rifles; is that enough for a 500 pound lion? I don't know, but I think the original question, although somewhat humorous, is a valid concern for law enforcement agencies and the populace they are sworn to protect.

Laws dealing with dangerous / exotic pets vary greatly depending on the state you live in. Some places don't allow people to own such animals. Others do.

Adult chimps are a handful. Like most animals, chimps will often times make a display of aggression before attacking. This is the time to start shooting--not when the things is closing the distance fast.

I'm waiting to hear what the training sounds like to teach LEO's how to Mirandize chimps! I mean you gotta' know someone will suggest it, what with the quality of people at the wheel anymore?

In addition, some people choose to obey laws and others do not. So who knows what kind of critter may be found running loose. I have had my fun with this thread, but I do agree that dangerous animals running around in the wrong place are a serious issue.

One of the biggest problems I have seen when it comes to law enforcement officers and animals is shot placement. Not poor shot placement because of poor marksmanship, but poor shot placement because the officer has no idea where the vitals are on the animal. Fewer and fewer law enforcement officers are hunters or grew up on farms etc.

In one instance an officer was attempting to dispatch a deer that had been injured by a vehicle. Knowing that he had been having problems killing deer with his pistol, he decided the shotgun would be a better choice. Several rounds of #4 buckshot later the deer eventually bled out. The guy had no idea where to shoot the poor thing and just kept blasting away in different areas. So everyone got a memo stating the obvious, that crippled deer can easily be killed with a pistol shot to the head.

The next memo was even more entertaining. All shots fired by officers had to be reported in a use of force report. All you had to do on the form was put your name on in, check a box or two, and write "shot injured deer". Apparently that was waaay to much work for our next genius. So he decides that rather than shoot the deer and have to fill out the form he would just beat the deer to death with his PR-24 baton. By the way he did this on the side of a busy six lane road during morning rush hour. I had never put much thought into it, but apparently it takes a while to beat a deer to death with a PR-24 given the number of people who called in to complain.

One thing about animals, like the two unfortunate deer mentioned above, is that they have a strong will to survive. I have seen a lot of game animals like deer take a well placed round from a rifle and run for a while. That deer was running to survive. An ape could use that same amount of willpower to rip you to shreds after he was shot. Knowing that the ape would eventually die would be of no great comfort to me while I was being mutilated.

If I were forced to decide on a handgun cartridge to shoot a rampaging chimp with I think I would choose the 10mm. In an MP5 of course. I would certainly not advise taking one on with a PR-24.

I think the thing is, you don't get to decide. If you're "forced to decide" the decision has already been made, the big monkey is comin' at you. You shoot whatever you have (hopefully). How do you prepare for a rampaging Chimpanzee??? What about runaway circus elephants? It happens, but I'm not carrying around a .460 rifle!

I don't know, though...maybe I will...

Originally posted by 940lvr:

"The next memo was even more entertaining. All shots fired by officers had to be reported in a use of force report. All you had to do on the form was put your name on in, check a box or two, and write "shot injured deer". Apparently that was waaay to much work for our next genius. So he decides that rather than shoot the deer and have to fill out the form he would just beat the deer to death with his PR-24 baton. By the way he did this on the side of a busy six lane road during morning rush hour. I had never put much thought into it, but apparently it takes a while to beat a deer to death with a PR-24 given the number of people who called in to complain."

Reminds me of another one of the hundreds of stupid things I've done but got away with unscathed:

I had been a new deputy working the road for about 9 or 10 months. Our department's written policy and procedures stated that, when a deputy discharged his weapon in the line of duty, on duty or off, for any other purpose than training, he would write a report AND a memo to his division commander AND appear when ordered before a shooting review board. The board would be made up of 6 or 8 captains, the under-sheriff, the chief deputy, mebbe the sheriff himself if it was a slow day, I guess. As a rookie deputy, it seemed a wise course of action to avoid doing things that put me in front of review boards if at all possible.

What I didn't know was, at that time, the policy was being rewritten to add shooting injured animals to the short list of shootings that didn't require appearing before the shooting review board. The in-practice policy was that the review board would review your report and the memo and, unless they saw something that needed attention, that was that.

Like I said, I didn't know that!

So, late one dark winter graveyard shift, while I am patroling vigilantly, I encounter a very large mule deer doe with three broken legs standing on the side of the road. Forested area, at the mouth of the canyon Snowbird and Alta ski resorts are in. Been hit by a car that has left the area. Obviously needs to be put down.

Needs to be put down... want to avoid review board... hmmmm......

I figured for a minute that I could probably shoot it and no one would know, and if someone living near by heard the shot and called in, I would be the one sent to check it out. With my luck, though, I figured that if I did shoot it without advising dispatch and pulling a case number, my sergeant would materialize out of the darkness and I would be in worse shape than the deer.

After cogitating for a few minutes, the very dim light bulb in my head went on. I had a nice, large and very sharp hunting knife in my briefcase! (For purpose of topicality, the knife WAS a S&W product.) The deer looked pretty weak, breathing fast, was down on it's stomache, drooping it's head, not moving other than that. I could grab my knife, grab the deer by the head, lift the head a bit and slice the doe's jugular veins in one fell swoop. A quick, probably painless death and no gunfire to risk or to report!

My plan went well until I touched the deer. Suddenly, it got new lease on life! It tried to get to it's feet, but only one leg was still undamaged. It started to flail wildly with the broken front legs, swinging them like a wild man's clubs! I hanged on, and desperately attempted to saw the poor creatures throat so it could bleed out and pass from this world.

I was lucky I didn't cut a finger or hand off! It took a bit, but finally my blade found the veins and blood started spurting from the neck. I release the deer's head, which I had wrapped my right arm around, and pulled away. The deer climbed up the frozen, plowed snowbank at the road's edge and collapsed. It stopped breathing seconds later.

I was a sight. I was drenched in sticky, rapidly cooling blood and had deer hair all over, too.

Business had been slow, so I decided I would run home, check out for lunch, take a fast shower and change uniforms. I thought I was being quiet, but my wife was awakened by the running water and came into the bathroom just as I took off my gun belt.

The first I knew of her presence was when she screamed! I must have looked like a lawn mower got me! It took a few seconds to tell her I was unhurt, it wasn't my blood!

I don't know if I violated any policy or broke any laws, but I did wait for 7 years to let the statute of limitations pass on any possible offense, before I told anyone about it!

Spank your monkey with a 10 and he won't get back up again.



Model 610-2 "Monkey Buster"

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TRUE STORY--A friend's family had a chimp as a pet, he was mean.
One night he got on the roof of the house and started to pull the shingles off and throw them at the family. The father had as much as he could stand of the chimps antics. He went inside and came out with his 38 spl. On about the fifth shot he knocked him off the roof. I don't know what loads he was useing but the fifth shot 'did da deal', the first four shots ventilated the roof.

+1

Great pic Richard Simmons. I have that same gun (the Lew Horton 1 of 300). It is a safe queen. I would use my 4-inch 610:



Or perhaps my Limited Edition stainless Bisley 357 Mag


Or perhaps my GP100 357 Mag


Or perhaps my AMT/IAI 10mm Mag Automag IV:

The chimp in question had enough training to grab a set of keys, open the door, and head over to the car....I am thankful that the chimp didn't get his hands on a glock...

Taking on a chimp with a handgun, at a minimum, it would be a .357 magnum loaded up with Buffalo Bore 180 gr LFN-GCs

In reality I'd be reaching for the heaviest thing I got which is a 45/70 Government, 405 grain Remington rounds...fired from a Marlin Lever Action.

Back in the day, I worked on a farm where a 2000 lbs Holstein Bull went over the edge and was chasing the farm owner. The farmer had crawled under a pick-up truck and the bull was beating the H*ll out of the truck. I was coming with a pitch-fork, when the farmers wife opened up with a Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine. The Bull fell on the 7th shot, but she shot him 3 more times just in case. All were good solid hits right behind the shoulder. I'm not sure what round she was using, but this took place in 1981.

Animalmother: The correct answer is "The ammo you have with you."

Very true, beemerrider. One will use whatever he or she has on hand at the time of the attack. Most chimps are not kind enough to schedule an attack ahead of time so that you can get your biggest, baddest blaster ready.

The cop that shot the chimp in this most recent attack was very likely using a 9mm or 40 S&W. The 2005 chimp attack (where the guy had his junk removed) was ended with a 45 ACP.

My main guns are all 357s or 10mms loaded with very good defense ammo.

As silly and fun as this thread is, That's exactly the reason to carry as much gun as you shoot well whenever you can. I'll bank on my .44 mag. 165 gr. JHP handload for chimps, or whatever other form of jackassery I run into.

For a 200 pound chimp, I think I would be using my .45 Colt with 250 grain lead bullet behind 8.5 grains Unique at 960 fps or maybe one of my light .41 Magnum 210 SWC's at 1,100 fps. The lightest thing I would want to use would be my .357 170 grain SWC's. I think with a really perturbed primate, the bigger the bullet the better. But I think the problem has already been outlined, trying to kill it before it rips your arm out of its socket and beats you to death with it before it bleeds out.

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Vaya con Dios

So after all this, am I the only one left mulling how useful it might be to have a guard chimp around?

Probably have to give him something simple to operate like a double barrel shotgun, but throw a helmet and body armor on the little guy and he might be quite useful. "Kill Mr. Bobo, kill!"





Anyway, more Chimp fun, here's one taking the zookeepers tranquilizer gun away on tape -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/23/chimp-steals-g...om-zoo_n_114589.html

AS said by a couple of other people, chimps are much more muscular than humans and have no intellectual understanding of "guns are dangerous." They can inflict fatal wounds with their teeth while they hold on to you with both hands and both feet. They are VERY DANGEROUS ANIMALS. And they are fast. Ideally you want to shoot them with something nasty from someplace where they can't get to you while they are bleeding out. A brain shot would do it but they have hard heads. 10mm would be nice, a .357 with a hard, heavy bullet should do the job also, as would a .41 or .44 with a decent hunting load.

A handgun or shotgun may not be adequate as you may need to engage at longer ranges.

Rifled Slugs 12 gauge as needed

Hand gun any thing 357 up.

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I believe a .44 Special with a 250 gr Keith slug at moderate velocity would sicken a chimp in a hurry. No "wondernine" please,you should never send a boy to the mill.

Good point, Flop-shank. I never thought about having to engage anything but another person. But these days you never know what you'll run into - exotic animals included. Maybe time for me to step up from a j-frame 38 to at least a k-frame 357.

Carry both if you're willing. I like the big gun IWB at 3:00 and #2 in my left hand front pocket. One gun allows a weak hand draw and from a hand that can be placed nonchalantly in the pocket. The fastest reload is often another loaded gun.

I figure I'm more likely to have to shoot an agressive dog than a human, and big dogs are very tough, pain tolerant animals.

I think Federal 230 grain Hydra-shok in 45 ACP would do the trick. Has a 90% + 1 shot stopping rate, therfore after I double tapped it, it would be 180% + dead.

The 45 ACP Hydra-Shok round would do the trick. In 5-inch barrel guns, the round has an even better one-shot-stop rating (something like 97-98%). Two of them would calm even the most enraged chimp down--forever.

Remember that the chimp ran away and died in its cage. In other words, it had plenty of time to rip off the shooter's face too, if it had wanted. The only sure bet at close range would be a head shot with a bullet that would hit the brain and not disintegrate before getting there. As usual, bullet placement is the key, followed by the construction of that bullet, with caliber being an important though lesser consideration.

Time spent running to grab a rifle or shotgun will be precious time wasted, so you will need to solve the problem with what you have on you, right now.

Dave Sinko