Pre-cocking a double action revolver

I went through the academy in 1978 and we were not allowed to shoot single action (never heard the term "pre-cocked" before) and we qualified on the PPC course so that was 18 rounds at 50 yards double action.
Speaking of Hollywood, ever seen The Commancheros with John Wayne? It was supposed take place in the 1840's but they were using Peacemakers and Wichester '73s !!
 
AZretired said:
Speaking of Hollywood, ever seen The Commancheros with John Wayne? It was supposed take place in the 1840's but they were using Peacemakers and Wichester '73s !!
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Ever seen "El Dorado"? Robert Mitchum's handgun switches from a Colt SAA to a S&W(?) double action revolver and back again several times.

Or how about "100 Rifles" when the Mexican troops during the Revolution are carrying M1 Garands?
 
I go into this post allowing for the possibility that I might be wrong - I don't know exactly how the Army's 1st Air Cav was equipped in Nov of 1965.

The movie "We Were Soldiers" was based on the battle for the Ia Drang Valley, November 14-18, 1965. All the rifles used in the movie (that I could see) feature a forward assist.

To my knowledge the first production version of the M16 with the FA was the M16A1 which went into production in Feb of 1967. Now - there was an Army prototype rifle called the XM16E1, but I don't think that it was issued in suffiecient numbers to equip all the soldiers that fought in Ia Drang with one. At the very least, I think I should have seen some M16's in there (or XM16's or SP1's) - but I didn't see one without a FA.

I imagine Hollywood prop lockers are filled with A1's from all the other Vietnam movies - so the prop masters probably didn't think anyone would notice (if they even knew) ..... at least they had the triangular handguards correct!
 
moxie said:
Two points here:

1. How can one watch "100 Rifles" and see any guns? All I could ever see in that movie was Raquel Welch. There were guns?
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There were actually scenes without her!

I saw it dubbed into Korean once! All of the men's voices were deeper than Isaac Hayes's and all of the women's higher than Betty Boop's.
 
WhisperFan said:
I go into this post allowing for the possibility that I might be wrong - I don't know exactly how the Army's 1st Air Cav was equipped in Nov of 1965.

The movie "We Were Soldiers" was based on the battle for the Ia Drang Valley, November 14-18, 1965. All the rifles used in the movie (that I could see) feature a forward assist.

To my knowledge the first production version of the M16 with the FA was the M16A1 which went into production in Feb of 1967. Now - there was an Army prototype rifle called the XM16E1, but I don't think that it was issued in suffiecient numbers to equip all the soldiers that fought in Ia Drang with one. At the very least, I think I should have seen some M16's in there (or XM16's or SP1's) - but I didn't see one without a FA.

I imagine Hollywood prop lockers are filled with A1's from all the other Vietnam movies - so the prop masters probably didn't think anyone would notice (if they even knew) ..... at least they had the triangular handguards correct!
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Take a look at the original photo of Lt. Rick Rescorla during the battle. The forward assist is clearly visible. As I understand it Ia Drang saw the introduction of the M16E1 in quantity.
 

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watchmanjimg said:
Take a look at the original photo of Lt. Rick Rescorla during the battle. The forward assist is clearly visible. As I understand it Ia Drang saw the introduction of the M16E1 in quantity.
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Good thing I started my post be saying I might be wrong!

Happened before --- it'll happen again!

I really didn't think the FA was available in quantity that early - oh well.
 
WhisperFan said:
Good thing I started my post be saying I might be wrong!

Happened before --- it'll happen again!

I really didn't think the FA was available in quantity that early - oh well.
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Don't feel too bad as it's easy to get confused on this, and there was likely a lot of variation from unit to unit. Believe me, I agonized over this while putting together an M16 lookalike for my Vietnam-era Army collection. I started off with a beautiful SP1, but after doing some research and looking at TONS of period photos I realized that the pre-FA rifles were used by the Air Force, Marines, and Navy well into the war but from IA Drang on the Army typically had the FA version. I recall claims on one Internet forum that some USAF rifles sported pre-FA uppers into the 21st Century!

There's also the question of fencing on the lower receiver, and in this 1966 training film the XM16E1 is clearly depicted at 4:46 in "partial fence" configuration:

Rifle 5.56mm, XM16E1, Operation and Cycle of Functioning TF9-3663 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

Some of the early advisor photos show M16s with slick-sided uppers and no fencing whatsoever, and I recall a later photo of an ARVN trooper carrying a rifle with no fencing and retrofitted FA upper.

The long and short of it appears to be that Army units throughout most of the war were equipped with rifles fitted with FAs.
 
To further muddy this most excellent post, our Sheriff's Office, which does the annual requalifications for retired guys, lets 'em fire single action, semi or wheelie, at the 50 foot stage. 1911s are banned, as is anything else with a barrel over 4".
 
Well, I figure I outta tell ya'll about the only time I ever saw a lawman thumb cock his revolver while on duty...
My old partner and I (I was a young pup then) had arrested a big ol boy for DUI. Put him in the city jail holding cell to sleep it off, when we got a radio call to return to the PD. Turns out this big boy had ripped the commode outta the floor and was standin' in the holding cell, the dripping toilet over his head, water spraying everywhere in the cell. As the drunk was yelling and screaming he was gonna kill us all if we opened the cell door, my partner had me open the cell and he went in, pulling his nickel plated 4 inch Python as he did so, stood at the cell door, thumb cocked it, and pointed it between his eyes. Ron told the dude he was gonna blow his brains all over the cell if he didn't put the crapper down. The big ol dude stood their, looked at Ron holding that Python one handed, arm outstretched like a 1930's police cadet...and decided enough was enough. He put the john down and we cuffed him, and took him to the county jail.....
The county jail staff took a dim view of his behavior, but that is another story...
 
I'm not a cop but I would not want my adrenaline-laced finger on a 3lb trigger when I had a 8-12 lb one available. Too much chance for an accidental discharge.

So, for me, a double action revolver would be kept with hammer down. a 1911 would be kept with the safety on (that makes the 1911 a poor choice for me. The time getting that safety off might be costly). A Glock or something similar would be just like the DA revolver.

But I would not want to be pointing a pistol with a light trigger at unknown targets.
 
Hollywood Drama

Single action police tactical technique -- only for the movies. In tactical situations, DA shooting is far more accurate and, of course, fast.
 
Sounds like most of you guys are too young to remember the case that got johnny cochran started. A black by the name of leonard deadwhyler was driveing his wife to the hostpital to have a baby in 1966 in L.A.
He was speeding and pulled over by a LAPD officer. Supposedly his foot slipped off the clutch, the car lurched forward knocking the officers arm and his revolver went off killing deadwhyler. As a result lapd had all the revovers fixed to fire double action only. The case was highly publisied, and the trial was on tv every day. I well remember it and watched the trial. You figure they would have changed all the guns if that officer hadnt thumbed his hammer back?
Landmark Cochran cases | Jet | Find Articles at BNET
 
I Remember -- When Things Go Wrong, Blame the Gun

I believe the DA-only modification was pretty much LAPD-unique. It was done in direct response to the Deadwhyler shooting. However, the tactic of sticking (or brandishing) a gun into the interior of a suspect's vehicle is almost never a good idea -- as the Deadwhyler shooting aptly demonstrated. The DA-only modification was immediately met with resistance from LAPD's rank and file; however, over time it became the norm and was not met with sustained opposition. The Deadwhyler shooting is an early example of what we've unfortunately come to know -- when poor gun handling or tactics occur, blame the gun not the operator and then make draconian "safety" modifications.
 
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