The Ahmaud Arbery Shooting

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federali

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By now you must have heard that Gregory McMichael and his son, Travis have been charged in the shooting death of an apparent jogger, they believed fit the description of a neighborhood burglar.

As discussed in this forum in both full and partial threads, there is no future in taking the law into your own hands and attempting citizens' arrests. I would like to think it was Massad Ayoob ( I may be mistaken here) who advised that no matter what your state has to say about citizens' arrest, it's best not to make a citizens' arrest. The laws are so treacherous and murky that you risk life as you know it once the legal machine begins to grind you up.

In the state laws that I'm familiar with, a citizens' arrest is permissible for a crime committed in your presence. Searching the neighborhood for someone the "fits the description" of a criminal is a job best left to the police. Once would think that after the Trayvon Martin shooting, in 2012, in Florida by George Zimmerman, people in general would have been awakened to the risks of overzealous participation in citizens' or neighborhood watch groups. These individuals should be the eyes and ears of the police the rather than arming themselves and trying to do their job for them.

I've mentioned it before in several threads: if your home suffers a break-in, any shots fired in self-defense within your home are easily viewed as legitimate self defense. If the intruder flees and you give chase outside your home, you are no longer acting in self defense but are now attempting a citizens' arrest where the laws become a legal minefield.

I think it's important that besides the elements to successful firearms engagements, we must also be intimately familiar with our local laws and how they may apply to the situation you find yourself in. Make a bad call and personal bankruptcy is the likely result.
 
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Make a bad call and personal bankruptcy is the likely result.

Or worse.

A good reason to know the relevant laws before something happens. I live in a Constitutional Carry state, but I still took the carry permit class, not only for reciprocity when traveling out-of-state, but also to learn my state's carry and self defense laws.

While it seems to be a somewhat controversial subject in these forums, it may also be worth it to consider one of the self-defense legal services available, or have a lawyer knowledgeable of self defense law on retainer. Like a gun, you may go through life never needing it, but if you do, you really need it.
 
Back in the early 80's I remember when NYPD met with our federal LEOs and advised that the best course of action off-duty was to drop a dime and report a crime, rather than get involved (unless exigent circumstances were present).

"Be a good witness" was what they counseled for their own off-duty officers as well as us feds. There is wisdom in that advice.

Personally, outside of my home, I will only get involved if there is a threat of loss of life or grave bodily harm to myself or others...if I feel I can make a difference without putting others at risk.
 
In many states "citizens arrest" is limited to a felony committed in your presence. Also, in many states figuring out what may be a felony/heinous felony can be confusing/difficult at best and may be dependent upon murky circumstances. Some states may throw in "breach of the peace" as grounds for a citizen arrest which can be even murkier.

There's been a lot of change in folks perception/outlook since most of our legal codes were originated.
 
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Back in the early 80's I remember when NYPD met with our federal LEOs and advised that the best course of action off-duty was to drop a dime and report a crime, rather than get involved (unless exigent circumstances were present).

"Be a good witness" was what they counseled for their own off-duty officers as well as us feds. There is wisdom in that advice.

Personally, outside of my home, I will only get involved if there is a threat of loss of life or grave bodily harm to myself or others...if I feel I can make a difference without putting others at risk.


This. The media is reporting that this occurred in February and that the Father/Son thought the Victim looked like a Subject caught on a surveillance camera from a prior burglary.....At the time ,they weren’t charged.

The proper action in this case would have been to call it in and report it and let LE handle it. There was NO imminent danger to to the Father/son or others at the time, You always have to conduct yourself and act as a reasonable and prudent Person.

I had a DI tell me back in 1966,” If you’re gonna be dumb, you better be tough”

These two have been arrested and charged with murder and agg assault,not to mention what the big G will come up with.

Make stupid choices, win stupid prizes.
 
Ignorance, adrenaline and guns are a dangerous combination - these men should now be tried by a jury of their peers and punished in accordance with the law if found guilty.

What we don't need, is for this to be the impetus of unnecessary hate crime laws to be adopted by my home state of Georgia.

Punish illegal actions, not misguided motives....


Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk
 
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It amazes me that with all the troubles going on over racism that people could be so stupid as to cause this kind of issue when it could easily been avoided. To me there are two victims, the actual victim & his family and all the law abiding citizens that are gun owners. Everyone of these incidents adds ammo to anti gunners.
 
This should never have happened, stupid vigilantes.
However the victim did not display a lot of intelligence by grabbing the barrel of a shotgun and fighting for possession when confronted by two vigilantes who had the drop on him.
I would wager that most of the cases of adversaries fighting over a firearm ends in at least one being shot.
 
It takes very few instances like this one, adding in armored-up AR carriers at State Capitals protesting public safety orders, to make life as we know it to change. Throw in a few confederate battle flags, run over some folks peacefully protesting, some crazy kid shoots up his high school, and all gun owners will be vilified. Support for reducing our 2nd amendment rights will increase. I’m not being political here. Merely stating my fears. Ask a Canadian how they feel now that they are facing a ban.
 
Aggressor

In the laws of self-defense, the aggressor, depending on your state, may not claim self defense but the victim may attempt to disarm the aggressor as part of his self defense. I would expect attorneys for the father and son would try to turn this around and muddy up the legal waters. The video apparently shows the father and son stopping their vehicle and producing shotguns. The victim cannot know nor does the law require him to know the intentions of his attackers. Perhaps resistance was a poor choice but he still acted in self defense.
 
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