Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...

"Baa."

This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

I bet this was written in a bar!
What a bunch of patting yourself on the back BS!
"I'm a sheepdog!"
"You all are sheep that should be looking up to me and honoring me!!!"
Is this guy who wrote this for real?
If so I bet he works security at the mall.

__________________
Jeb

Some of it is good, some I don't agree with. The part at the end about denial couldn't be more true.

Since the sheep often insist on the warriors being disarmed and are oftentimes enablers of criminals, I find them morally repugnant.

I'd recommend reading it again.

The warrior ( I'll call him warrior because he's to modest to be called HERO) who wrote this has very low self esteem.
He's the guy that lives for the day when someone asks the question in one form or another on a gun forum (Have you ever had to kill a person?)
He will tell the story of how he has HAD, to do THINGS, that he didn't want to do ,but HAD TO BE DONE!
He'll state how after doing these THINGS! he really won't talk about it.
Then he will write a whole page telling how he won't talk about it.
Then he will finish by telling how he is always wired for protection mode.
Always keeping his gun hand free because no one knows when the wolf will strike.(But he will be there and ready to take on the wolf and save the defenceless sheep.)
Then he will give an example of how he is always alert to his surroundings.
It will go something like this-
(Even when I get a hair cut I keep my eye on the door and everyone else in the barber shop.
And while most people are reading a sports mag. I am looking over my mag watching over everything.
When the barber is done with me and spins me around in the chair to check out my hair cut, I am really scanning the others in the shop and the door through the mirror.,,,,Because that is the way us sheepdogs are.)
This guy is living in a fantasy world where he is the hero.
And he can live his warrior sheepdog fantasy on the internet.

Well, actually, this is his bio:

Biography: Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman

LT. COL. DAVE GROSSMAN, U.S. Army (Ret.) Director, Warrior Science Group, Killology Research Group, A Warrior Science Group: Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman, Author - Jonesboro, Arkansas
Lt. Col. Dave Grossman is an internationally recognized scholar, author, soldier, and speaker who is one of the world's foremost experts in the field of human aggression and the roots of violence and violent crime.


Col. Grossman is a former West Point psychology professor, Professor of Military Science, and an Army Ranger who has combined his experiences to become the founder of a new field of scientific endeavor, which has been termed “killology.” In this new field Col. Grossman has made revolutionary new contributions to our understanding of killing in war, the psychological costs of war, the root causes of the current "virus" of violent crime that is raging around the world, and the process of healing the victims of violence, in war and peace.

He is the author of On Killing, which was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize; has been translated into Japanese, Korean, and German; is on the U.S. Marine Corps Commandant's required reading list; and is required reading at the FBI academy and numerous other academies and colleges. Col. Grossman co-authored Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence, which has been translated into Norwegian and German, and has received international acclaim. Col. Grossman's most recent book, On Combat, has also placed on the U.S. Marine Corps Commandant's Required Reading List and has been translated into Japanese and Korean.
Col. Grossman has been called upon to write the entry on “Aggression and Violence” in the Oxford Companion to American Military History, three entries in the Academic Press Encyclopedia of Violence and numerous entries in scholarly journals, to include the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy.

He has presented papers before the national conventions of the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

He has presented to over 50 different colleges and universities worldwide, and has trained educators and law enforcement professional, in the field of school safety, at the state and regional level, in 49 states and over a dozen foriegn nations.

He helped train mental health professionals after the Jonesboro school shootings, and he was also involved in counseling or court cases in the aftermath of the Paducah, Springfield, Littleton, Virginia Tech, and Nickel Mines Amish school shootings.

He has been an expert witness and consultant in state and Federal courts, to include serving on the prosecution team in UNITED STATES vs. TIMOTHY MCVEIGH.

He has testified before U.S. Senate and Congressional committees and numerous state legislatures, and he and his research have been cited in a national address by the President of the United States.

Col. Grossman is an Airborne Ranger infantry officer, and a prior-service sergeant and paratrooper, with a total of over 23 years experience in leading U.S. soldiers worldwide. He retired from the Army in February 1998 and has devoted himself to teaching, writing, speaking, and research. Today he is the director of the Killology Research Group, and in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks he is on the road almost 300 days a year, training elite military and law enforcement organizations worldwide about the reality of combat.



Civilian Education

• M.Ed., Counseling Psychology, University of Texas, Austin, TX, Phi Kappa Phi, Kappa Delta Pi, 1990
• BS, Columbus College, Columbus, GA, Summa Cum Laude, Phi Kappa Phi, 4.0 GPA, 1984
• AA, Fayetteville State University, Fayetteville, NC, 4.0 GPA, 1977

Academic Experience

• Adjunct Faculty, Department of Psychology and Counseling, Arkansas State University, 1994-1999
• Professor of Military Science & Chair, Department of Military Science, Arkansas State University, 1994-1998
• Assistant Professor, Dept. of Behavioral Sciences and Leadership, USMA, West Point, NY, 1991-1993
• Instructor, Department of Behavioral Sciences and Leadership, USMA, West Point, NY, 1990-1991
• Graduate Instructor, Dept. of Counselor Education, University of Texas at Austin, 1990
• Counselor (internist), Round Rock Junior High, Round Rock, TX, 1989-1990

Memberships

• Army Ranger (life member)
• Disabled American Veterans (life member)
• National Tactical Officers Association (honorary life member)
• Georgia Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors (honorary member)
• International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors
• American Society of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors
• Association of SWAT Personnel (honorary member)
• Vietnam Veterans of America (honorary member)
• The Retired Officer Association
• British Army Staff College Mess (lifetime member)
• Phi Kappa Phi National Honor Society
• Kappa Delta Pi National Education Honor Society
• Honor Initiate to Order of Omega National Greek Honor Society
• Honor Initiate to Alpha Tau Omega Fraternity
• PADI certified open water diver
• Mensa

Well Barb,
You got me!
Excuse me while I pull my foot out of my mouth.

Is it the semantics you don't agree with, or do you disagree that there are sheep, sheep dogs and wolves in our culture?

I can respect a man who admits it when he's wrong.

Willy, I also have a lot of respect for you. Not many that can own up to litterally 'blowing it'.

+1

Thanks for the background information BarbC.

After reading Willy's first post in this thread I have to admit I thought he hit the nail on the head.
Then Barb posted the writer's stats. and I couldn't believe it.

ANYONE who is an Army Ranger deserves, and has earned 100% of my respect.


Thinking an Army Ranger writing that, was hard for me to believe though.
So I looked at the stats again.
I noticed he was just starting his career in the Army when I was finishing up my own.
He served 23 years compared to my 6.
He was a higher rank than I ever hoped to be.
And with all his impressive stats listed I didn't notice any mention of combat experience.
And I wondered why with his rank he would retire after 23 years.
I did note though that he is a psychology professor.
And he also writes books and gives speeches.
And the books he writes is about other peoples experiences.

And his thoughts on Sheepdogs, Wolves and sheep are just a marketing ploy to sell books.
Seems as though every LEO who reads the Sheepdog rant will run out and buy his books.
(At least that is what Lt. Col. Grossman hopes!)
He wasn't taught any of that kind of thinking in the Rangers!

All this doesn't have any bearing on the respect he has earned.
I still have the utmost respect for him for being a Ranger.


So now he is an author who is out there pushing his books.
He talks and writes like a author out to make a buck, not an Army Ranger.
He knows what sells, and uses his Army Training as tool to show his expertise on what he writes.
The only problem with that is, what he writes isn't what he learned in the Army.

I do believe the Sheepdog ,sheep and wolves rant was written by Dave Grossman the book selling author.

Not Lt.Col. Grossman the Army Ranger


For more info
www.theppsc.org/Grossman/Main-R.htm


pages.slc.edu/~fsmoler/grossman.html

__________________
Jeb

While I would never rely solely upon someone's "credentials" as proof of their ultimate authority (because after all, everyone has some subjectivity, bias and motive), distill down to the basic message and either incorporate it if it meshes with truth and reality or reject it if it does not.

In other words, Grossman's message is "Most people are not conditioned to pay attention to their surroundings and react decisively to a threat" and "It is counterproductive to a successful society to teach children to glorify killing".

There now - I just saved you all $29.95 by cutting out the blabbety-blah part.

Stonewall,

The military has specialists of various types that interview those who have BTDT and they also read the AARs. These include intelligence, shrinks of various descriptions and other folks. They then distill the valuable information that the folks at the sharp end provide and make sure everyone is aware of what has been learned. This has gone on for centuries and doesn't make the information any less valuable. This is especially true in the development of training doctrine. The subjects Dr Grossman is addressing are training doctrine and mindset.

Oddly enough, the military officer corps is terrified of personal weapons because the warrior ethos has been replaced by a management mindset that is risk adverse. God forbid Corporal Dimwit should actually have a loaded personal weapon in a war zone, he might have a negligent discharge that derails his commanders career path. No, I'm not kidding. Read the ROEs that were in place in Iraq.

In the civilian world, a horrifying number of folks are risk adverse and have a mindset that objectively could be considered pathological. Despite what many choose to believe, bad things do happen to people, monsters do, in fact, exist and you can't pass a law to prevent it.

I agree.
If you think from reading my post that I didn't believe that evil and evil people exist, then I'm sorry I didn't make myself more clear.

__________________
Jeb

This kinda reminds me of something my old man use to always tell me. My father would always say, "son, you'll never rise to the occasion, you only revert to your level of training". I know that was not an original quote by my father, but its always stuck with me and I think its got a lot of meaning.

On this and many gun forums you hear a lot of self proclaimed experts give advice on guns, life and near death experiences, and its no wonder people become skeptical when someone writes something similar to the article on sheeps and wolves. I think this article was really good, but I totally see where people get their skepticism from and can relate to it. I hear a lot of people on the internet and many gun forums tout their experiences and constantly patting themselves on their back and it makes me sick. Maybe I'm just not as tough as a lot of these "tactical Teds" (what I call self proclaimed tactical experts) but the first time I saw a dead body in the military it nearly made me sick and I had problems sleeping for months after that, when I see similar stuff at work these days it still bothers me tremendously. If I need to go hands on with somebody, I will but I would be lying if I said I don't lay in bed sometimes and constantly re think my actions and wonder if I could of done something different resulting in a better outcome. Thank God I have never had to kill anyone at work sofar, but if I did I would still rather tell the stories of the people's lives I saved and not the lives I took. There is a lot more gratifications for me in knowing I was able to pull a girl out of a burning car than shooting some crack head.

Yup, I think there must be the sane and the insane. Then there are those that try to sort out the sides. Just remember, when the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

__________________
Hook686

It depends on the church. Im on the board of a small congregation. On any Sunday, there are 1 to 4 handguns in the pews, and one in the front. Heads won't roll, most of the sheep don't know, and never will. One elderly lady patted me on the hip during fellowship hour, what are you doing with that? was her question. No one here is going to get hurt unless I'm dead, was what I said. Then I got a hug. I really love that sister. There a NO active LEO in the church.

I've had this descussion with a relative that is a pastor. He couldn't see the need, some of the other cousins were schocked, and didn't understand. I'm not a Wolf, at church just a member of the flock, with teeth, and aware of what is going on around my sheep.

__________________
Good Luck
Bob

I think most people know they are in danger a little while before they are attacked. It is bestto leave....NOW. But sometimes you can't, and then it is very reassuring to have your firearm. Half the time, just having it makes you no longer a target. I don't seek to be a hero, but I will not allow anything to happen in front of me that I cannot live with. If I must die, I wan't to die in my sleep or on my feet...not on my knees.
If you think most people are good, then most people should be armed.
If most people are bad, then there is no hope for society. Ace

One time in the late 70s, I was in a subway car in NYC. A man in Muslim garb (white flowing clothes and cap) stood up while the train was in motion and said, "May I have your attention." I thought, "Oh my God, we're going to die." We were completely trapped in that subway car between the tunnel walls.

Turns out, he was only making a plea for donations or money. But it was a very vulnerable situation. I was around 17 at the time. It was the start of the "awakening".

I've attended a L.E. training seminar with Col. Grossman as the speaker. He made some incredibly valid points and is obviously a very intelligent man.

I see no useful reason to discredit him. Yes, he sells books. And the topic of his books is not something routinely covered under any other printed work. It is a gritty, undesireable and ugly topic, and he does a very good job of conveying information in a professional way.

I am not easily impressed and have come into contact with hundreds of "been-there wannabe's". (Hey, I'm a retired career LEO AND work in a gun shop...). Col Grossman impressed me.