.25 ACP ballistic test-vs .22 Long Rifle

Evil One said:

I was shot in the chest with a .25.
It stopped in my sternum.
I have a nice crater where it hit.
My best friend pulled it out with a pair of needle nose pliers.
Sorry, I wouldnt carry a .25.


Jim

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The relevant question is...where you in the process of commiting an assault on someone, and if so, did the round STOP you?

Whether or not someone was dissuaded from continuing criminal activity by a .25 ACP is rather subjective.

Often being shot, in any manner, will change someone's mind. Altering conscious thought to deter someone from further criminal activity can be difficult to determine.

Scott

gunfan said:

The .25 NAA is the answer to your quest. A .32 ACP case that has been "necked down" to accept a .251" 50 grain, .25 cal. bullet.


Scott

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That sounds good, but I think that it would be more practical on several levels to stick with a round that is more widely available If you can go that far you could probably move up to a small 9mm.

tailslide said:

That sounds good, but I think that it would be more practical on several levels to stick with a round that is more widely available If you can go that far you could probably move up to a small 9mm.

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I remember an old magazine article about increasing the
effectiveness and penetration of the 25 acp. I may still have
it somewhere in one of my storage tubs, i'll look. The author
chose to stick with the standard 25 acp case and use his own
bullet design. He turned solid brass bullets from 1/4" brass
round stock on a mini lathe. He settled on a bevel base bullet
with a point tapered to a sharp point that weighed 35 grs
rather than the typical 50 gr FMJ. He loaded them over enough
Unique to get over 1100 fps out of a Beretta 950 and did some
penetration tests. He said they out penetrated any other auto
pistol factory FMJ rounds in all test media. I don't know if
such rounds would be legal to assemble under current laws
but it shows what could be done if someone were so inclined.

Don't remember who said it but "a .22 in the eye is better than a .44 in the thigh!" Placement,placement , placement. If you know you are going to a gunfight take MINIMUM 12ga. with slugs. Otherwise anything is better than nothing. Mark

I knew a guy that wouldn't leave a jealous guy's girlfriend alone. The story went something on the lines of he was in a telephone booth and guy walked up and started shooting. After the guy ran out of bullets he ran away, the guy knew he had been shot, there was blood all over but otherwise he could walk and made it to the nearby hospital. He had been shot 4 or 5 times in the head, through the glass windows of the phone booth, none of the bullets had penetrated his skull or injured his eyes, ears, etc. He completely recovered with hardly a scar. I told him he was lucky the guy didn't open the door. The bullet was .25acp, I think because of that I've never considered owning one.

K.38 said:

I always liked what Col. Jeff Cooper said about the .25. If you shoot someone with a .25 and he finds out about it he is really going to be mad at you.

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This is the most oft quoted remark I hear about the .25 ACP... also the most ignorant and ill conceived.

If anyone would care to let me 'surprise' someone in either the neck, throat or face with my .25, simply sign a notarized waiver and I'll hand load some hot Bryce McGillvray loads to 'energize' your afternoon! (If you survive, you must decline prosecution at ANYTIME, regardless of circumstance!)

Any takers?

Scott

Sign me up

JK

Mike

tailslide said:

That sounds good, but I think that it would be more practical on several levels to stick with a round that is more widely available If you can go that far you could probably move up to a small 9mm.

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Cor-Bon has two loads for the .25 NAA a 60 grain JHP and a 71 grain FMJ load. Given the number of NAA Guardian pistols already chambered for the caliber, I don't think that they will be discontinuing production anytime soon. (Aside from that, .32 ACP casings can always be "necked down" to hand load the cartridge.)

Scott

gunfan said:

Cor-Bon has two loads for the .25 NAA a 60 grain JHP and a 71 grain FMJ load. Given the number of NAA Guardian pistols already chambered for the caliber, I don't think that they will be discontinuing production anytime soon. (Aside from that, .32 ACP casings can always be "necked down" to hand load the cartridge.)

Scott

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The problem I have with this is that I CCW always. If worse came to worst and I had to draw and fire, I would have a lot of explaining to do, no matter how straight forward it might seem. It would be a lot easier to explain factory ammo, in a recognized caliber, than something like this.

There was a homicide about a mile from my home a couple of years ago. Two guys were gambling in a trailer park and one shot the other in the heart with a .25 which killed him on the spot.

Amazingly the police had been called to the same trailer park a few days before when the same two gents were gambling and one cut the other and then refused to give the cops any information that could have led to an arrest.

tailslide said:

The problem I have with this is that I CCW always. If worse came to worst and I had to draw and fire, I would have a lot of explaining to do, no matter how straight forward it might seem. It would be a lot easier to explain factory ammo, in a recognized caliber, than something like this.

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I cannot believe that the .32 NAA (even handloaded) could, or would, be called into question. The caliber is too small to be used as a "red herring" in the courtroom.

Scott

My dad gave this to me years ago. His uncle had given it to him back in the 30's, so as you can see, it's got some age on it. No telling where my dad's uncle got it as he was somewhat "shady" himself.

I've shot it and it goes "bang" when it's supposed to. I've never really carried it as my concealed carry gun, but like many have stated, it sure beats being unarmed.

However, no matter how hard I try, I can't look at this little gun without thinking that it might've spent several years tucked discreetly in the undergarments of some brothel madam.

Damn, that's a nice lookin '25

Mike

Mobile on my SGH-i717

WE0H said:

Damn, that's a nice lookin '25

Mike

Mobile on my SGH-i717

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I agree. I can imagine what a nice hot load in that little pistol could accomplish at a range of 3 feet.

(Oooh, that SMARTS!)

Scott

.25 acp performance in a Beretta Jetfire 950BS

Ok. I have just purchased a .25acp Beretta Jetfire and I was hugely disappointed after I have read this thread yesterday. To the point that I started thinking of shelving this beauty of a pistol. Than me and a buddy of mine decided to test it for ourselves to be sure. You see, after reading about the .25 acp bulllets "being stopped by heavy jackets" and "having bounced off trees and hitting the shooter in the leg" and "getting stuck in the skin so that one could remove them with fingernails" we kind of felt bad of our Berettas. Ok. We have taken 3 catalogues totaling almost 3 inches in thickness. In order to make sure that we do account for the infamous "heavy jacket .25 acp bullet stopping power", we wrapped the catalogues in 2 layers of heavy canvas. Than, we shot the package with a 50gr Fiocchi FMJ and a 35gr Hornady HP. The FMJ went through the package and we never recovered it. The HP went half way through and got stuck in the middle of the second catalogue in the bundle with insignificant resulting expansion and impact cavity with cracks going well into the third catalogue. I can honestly say that even though I agree that .25acp is not an ideal primary weapon choice by any means, I respect the round and I would hate being shot with it. Also, I do not believe in bouncing bullets and bullet stopping jackets after what I have seen. I have the pictures if someone interested. And, yes, I do like my tiny Beretta and will keep caring it as a back-up with no second thoughts. FMJ is the way to go though.

I used to have a beretta 950 in .25. It was a neat little gun until it broke, then broke again. So after getting it fixed I sold it and got the 21a in .22LR. Not because I didn't like the 950, but because the ammo was $20 a box of 50 and, at the time, .22 was $20 or less for a box of 500. I just couldn't afford to shoot the .25.

But then, you've all come to know and, I hope, love that 21a as "The Mighty Bobcat"!

Let me say that I really appreciate how this thread has not devolved into a 'caliber war'. I quit the Beretta forum years ago because they would always talk trash about "The Mighty Bobcat!". And I had a 92FS and (was it an 84, or was that an 85...???)...anyhoo, they would talk trash about all of them. You had to be in .40 S&W or better to be on that forum.

zhoolka said:

Ok. I have just purchased a .25acp Beretta Jetfire and I was hugely disappointed after I have read this thread yesterday. To the point that I started thinking of shelving this beauty of a pistol. Than me and a buddy of mine decided to test it for ourselves to be sure. You see, after reading about the .25 acp bulllets "being stopped by heavy jackets" and "having bounced off trees and hitting the shooter in the leg" and "getting stuck in the skin so that one could remove them with fingernails" we kind of felt bad of our Berettas. Ok. We have taken 3 catalogues totaling almost 3 inches in thickness. In order to make sure that we do account for the infamous "heavy jacket .25 acp bullet stopping power", we wrapped the catalogues in 2 layers of heavy canvas. Than, we shot the package with a 50gr Fiocchi FMJ and a 35gr Hornady HP. The FMJ went through the package and we never recovered it. The HP went half way through and got stuck in the middle of the second catalogue in the bundle with insignificant resulting expansion and impact cavity with cracks going well into the third catalogue. I can honestly say that even though I agree that .25acp is not an ideal primary weapon choice by any means, I respect the round and I would hate being shot with it. Also, I do not believe in bouncing bullets and bullet stopping jackets after what I have seen. I have the pictures if someone interested. And, yes, I do like my tiny Beretta and will keep caring it as a back-up with no second thoughts. FMJ is the way to go though.

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Hey zhoolka, did your 950 Jetfire come with the box, manual and little cleaning brush? I think I saw mine from the one I sold laying around here somewhere (though it was several months ago). If you want them shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can dig them out.

....oh wow, just checked. I found them...now where's that little brush...

I admire ZHOOLKA and others who don't listen to rumors and test for themselves. I myself have done quite a bit of testing over the years. I have heard many times about the 25 ACP bouncing off a tree and thus not being a round for defense. I have no doubt that a few 25's have bounced off a tree, but I don't consider that a way to rate a defense cartridge. If this were the case then the mighty 44 Magnum wound not qualify, as I have a 44 Magnum slug in my collection that bounced off an Aspen tree and struck me in the leg. Since we all know a 44 Magnum is a good defense round, we cant used the bullet bouncing as a deciding factor.

I know of 2 instances that a 25 ACP was used.

A local man in our small town was known to sleep with married women. One time the husband came home early, and caught them in bed together . The scoundrel got up, put his pants on and made some kind of snide remark to the astounded husband. It was at this point the husband pulled out his 25 ACP and shot the man in the chest at close range. The man simply looked down at the bleeding hole in his chest and said, "That didn't hurt a b...." and fell dead.

I had a roughneck working for me north of Spokane in the late 70's. Danny was a big stout youth. He didn't show up for work on Monday. When he did show up on Tuesday I was waiting for the usual BS story of why he was late. He pulled his pants down and showed me why he was late. Seems he was dancing with a married woman in a bar when her smallish hubby showed up and challenged him to a packing lot showdown. Danny being such a large kid thought this was going to be an easy fight. He then stated that he heard a load pop and he was on the ground flopping around. Seems the irate hubby has a 25 ACP and had shot him in the thigh. Danny said it put him down instantly. Going to the hospital, the doctor found the bullet had passed though all the thigh and was lodged under the skin on the far side. The doctor made an "x" style cut in his skin to retrieve the bullet. Danny screamed in pain and asked the doctor for a deadening shot. The doctor made the remark that if he was stupid enough to mess around with married women he better get tough.

G.T. Smith said:

All this talk about .25's I just had to share this pic of this little Raven MP-25. I guess they are supposed to be the worst gun ever made, this one runs smooth and I don't think it has ever jammed. I can't hit things at 5 yards but my son seems to have the knack and does pretty good at 10 yards or so. S&B bullets are ear ringers for sure.

gordon

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Great little guns despite their reputation (which seems to have come from people who have no experience with one). I purchased mine from my wife's grandfather when he needed some help on funds and had no use for it. This is the first variation made in the 70's and wasn't cleaned since he purchased it from his brother. Took it out and put a couple magazines through it and no malfunctions. I even carried it for a while since I didn't have any other concealable pistols. My mindset while carrying it was that I would not using it unless someone was about 5 feet away.

25 ACP would not be my choice, but if it was all I had I would have no problem carrying it