Anybody know anything about Parker shotguns? I know they're considered very good guns. My gandfather had a 20 ga, but I don't remember much about it.

I looked at one at the LGS the other day. It was a V-Grade, 12ga., 28" BBL,Blue. It looked like it had been well hunted, but locked up tight. Couple of minor sports of rust, but nothing really abused or anything. Basically it just looked like a well used, well cared for field gun.

I'm probably not really interested in buying it. I have no idea what I'd do with it other than look at it.

I also admit that I don't know enough about them to know that to look for, or to ask an intelligent question.

But darn that thing keeps nagging me. If I'm lucky someone else has bought it and I won't have to think about it.

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John 3:16 .

I love my Parker 1878 Gr 1 12ga, and see no reason to keep it in the safe. One of the joys of fall is to take out a shotgun made in 1884 for a few upland birds. In respect for it's age I keep the loads light, and only take it out in nice weather, makes for a great conversation starter when I shoot clays with it once or twice a summer... I hate to add to anyones addiction, but you will not be sorry you bought it... As for me I am still searching for a 20 ga. Parker L.C. Smith or Fox to join it in the safe....

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always trust your cape...

They are special. I grew up quail hunting with a 20 gauge Trojan Model that my Dad inherited from his Uncle. I didn't realize what it was until I was in my 20s. I remember comparing my double with a friend's and being disappointed that I didn't have a Stevens 311 like his.

I take mine out and shoot a few pen-raised birds from time to time, just for old times sake. In my early 20s I traded for a Browning Sweet 16 with 26" barrel and IC choke. I pretty much semi-retired the Parker then.

Mine was the economy field grade model, but my understanding is that they all have the same internals, the higher grades just have more embellishment. I believe I checked the sn once and my gun was manufactured in 1916.

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Georgia On My Mind

Wouldn't your gun have twist or laminated barrels?
Be careful!

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Georgia On My Mind

I did a little searching around and realized that I don't know enough to even know what this gun might be. All I know is what I posted earlier. It's a V-grade, 12 ga with 28" barrels. I know they're asking $850.00 for it, which is the lowest price I've ever seen on any Parker, at least since I've dared to look at the prices. I was actually surprised to see it on the "regular gun rack" and not in the collectors cabinet.

If it's still there the next time I stop in, I'll have to look it over closer and see what markings it has and such. If it hasn't been snatched up. Maybe if it hasn't that tells me something too.

When I was a kid my grandfather had a 20 ga Parker that I just thought was the cats meow, and i didn't know anything about double guns at all. I believe he told me that he paid more than 100.00 for it when he bought it back in the late 20's, IIRC (I was just a kid, and he's been dead for 40 years). He then sent it back and had automatic ejectors installed. My Uncle has it now.

He had a 12 ga A.H. Fox also.

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John 3:16 .

I have a trojan 30 in full & mod & I think it is a VH 26 in open & cyl bore not positive on mod #. Love to shoot them . Because they shoot on the bead some guns have to hold over or under point of aim . Can you take apart & ck bore size & stampings . Make sure it is not a Damascus barrel for that price

Twist steel, I had it checked out by a gunsmith, and the bbl's are in quite good condition and I only use light lead loads. The issue of using twist and laminated bbl's is discussed rather often on double gun sites with many folks using the same with a good deal of success.....

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always trust your cape...

Look in Shotgun News. A fellow named Chadicks LTD has an add for PARKERS & H.A. FOX. Probably knows more than anyone. He used to live somewhere around Terrell Texas.

I have been a collector of American doubles for a while now. Parkers are nice guns and of the big name American doubles Parker is the one that holds its value the best. Somewhere around 1917 {or was it 1919} they did a redesign of the internal parts and made them alot better mechanically. All parkers can be put back on face with replaceable parts. The biggest thing to watch out for with double guns is the barrels themselves...they are soldered together and over time the solder can oxidize. Also, many doubles are "refinished" by someone that doesn't know how. Double barrels cannot be hot blued it will destroy the solder and can cause them to come apart. I suggest to anyone interested in old American double guns to read Michael MacIntosh' book titled "Shotguns and Shooting" There is an absolute wealth of info in there and the book {actually there were several in the series} is a very good read. There are not too many really good gun books out there that are enjoyable to read, but this is definately one of them. He has a chapter on buying a used double gun that includes in easy to understand explainations of exactly what to look for and how to check things out. The book may be a little hard to find now, but worth every penny and almost a requirement of anyone interested in doubles. FWIW, Parkers also have different frame sizes that can drive the price in addition to the grade. The 12 gauge guns standard frame was a 2, the 16 was a 1 1/2 and the twenty ga was a #1. It is rare to find a 12 ga on a #1 1/2 frame...even rarer on a #1, I have only seen one and I own it. All the frames were the same height, it was the width that is different. Best advice to someone buying a double...get an education or take someone with you that knows doubles, you can spend alot of money and end up stuck.

Check the standard stuff on it. The serial number should match on the frame (action flat), bbls, forend (inside on the F/E iron flat). The trigger guard will have the serial # hand engraved on it even on the V grade.
No choke markings on the bbls till Remington took over production.

Make sure the bbls haven't been cut at all,,a real value killer on SxS guns,,especially Parkers, Fox, LC Smith and the like.
Not ncommon to see 30" bbls clipped to 28".
The old 'ends touching' doesn't always tell the whole story. Some left the factory w/o the tubes touching at the end. Some you can cut back 2 inches and still get the tubes to touch when resoldering.
The rib matting on top always had a blank empty space of about 1/16 to 1/8" at the muzzle. It didn't run right to the end and off.
It stopped short at a single hand cut line accross the rib and then the blank area in front of it.
Cut bbls will usually show the matting right to the end/edge of the rib.,,BUT sometimes if the matting is shallow enough, a space and cross line can be put back in there and all looks well again.

Bores can look great but also have been honed out. Depending on how much was taken out and how original you want the gun or for what purpose,,it should be priced accordingly.
Check choke constriction and choke length too. Cut bbls may still have a bit of the old choke in them,,but the length of the constriction inside the bore will be very short,,a sign they've been cut. Parker chokes were 2 to 2 1/2" in length.

An early enough 12ga gun will have 2 5/8" chambers IIRC. I can't remember right off hand when the 2 3/4" came to be standard. MAny have been lengthened,,some have had the forcing cones lengthened as well. Each job has to be judge by itself for quality and safety. The bbl starts to step down in thickness right about where the chamber/forcing cone is. Any work done there should be done only after some measuring and calculations. Same with bbl wall thickness and honing out the bores.
That stuff holds true for any sxs.

Butt plate standard was a hard rubber material w/ a 'dog's head' image in the center. A tiny spur extends and is inletted into the stock at the top on Meriden mfg..
The 'Dog's Head Butt Plate' is most common, but PArker would even on the V grade supply recoil pads from the factory.
Many times the fragile hard rubber plates have been cracked and then replaced with a later modern mfg'r recoil pad. Sometimes the stock cut along with that and the once again the value goes down.
Originality,,even just a hint of it on the gun,,is worth everything on a Parker.

'Off the face' bbls are not as easy a fix as Fox or LCS as far as parts change. The hinge pin is a complicated shape and it's not just a case of replacing with a slightly larger diameter one.
Look at the bbl 'hook' for any welding, refitting, peening, soldered shims, dovetailed inserts, ect. All attempts to tighten up a loose off the face action. Some work,,some should not be attempted.

Anything other than double triggers, extractors, pistol grip stock and splinter style forend is considered special order. Some features seen more often than others. Ejectors and single selective trigger drive the price up quicker than anything as far as options.

A 12ga on a #2 frame is very common. Others not so as 'msinc' points out above.
A garden variety 12 VH well worn shotgun but unaltered is probably priced about right in the $800 area. I stress 'unaltered'.
Educate yourself or have someone that knows the guns look it over before buying. I'll second the advise of msinc on that.

Thanks for the info all. I passed on it. It's a Trojan model. Not in bad shape at all, but it's been refinished and the shop guy told me it has short chambers. The S/N's all matched though, and the barrels have not been cut. I'd probably never shoot it, but I might want to.

I'll admit that I don't know a lot about them, but the fellow who owns this shop does, and he's always been a straight shooter.

Still I was tempted. It just jumped to my shoulder, and pointed like a finger.

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John 3:16 .

Good info above too...thanks for the comments. IIRC the 2 3/4" chamber was commonplace around 1927ish. One thing to remember about American doubles when looking at cut barrels, a dead giveaway is the barrel length not being right on to the even inch. None of the factories cut barrels on odd inch lengths. Likewise, fractions like typically seen with european guns weren't used either.
I thought the Parker was relatively easy to put back on face, Galazan's had {maybe "had" is the right word here} all the parts. The hinge pin presses out fairly easily and you replace the "roll" {or was it called the barrel roll??}in the receiver. The barrel had a real small little wedge thing {I think it was just called the barrel wedge, maybe bolt plate??} near the breech underneath that was a wear replacement part for the top lever to engage.
One thing I always found funny about Parkers...they had different names for the barrel steel per the grade of gun. Yet, unless it was one of the highest grades that were offered with "Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel" it is a proven fact that all the steel was the same. They marked the barrel Vulcan Steel for the V grade, Special Steel for the G and Titanic Steel for the D's...The A-1 Special and the AAHE had Peerless Steel on the top of the rib. Steel was relatively new back then and great emphasis was placed on its strength and level of refinement. However, it was not all that by todays standards and what is generally regarded as the first really great gun steel to be alloyed was Chromox like used by Ansley Fox.

Dude, go back and get the gun...you like it, it's O.K. we know. Even if it is a Trojan...many an extensive collection started out with less. In my case, I was hooked by an old 16ga Lefever Nitro Special given to me by my wifes grandfather. It was a real jewel when I got it, it had a bandsawed 2X4 for a stock and to begin with the "Nitro Special" wasn't even a real Lefever...and has morphed into a 150K collection. The centerpiece being a tossup between a 20ga Ansley H. Fox XE like new and an unfired Lefever Arms EE.

I love Parkers, used to own three including two hammer guns, one an underlever, but now down to one, a VH with straight stock, 26" tubes and all original although it shows its age. I bought it cheaply from my friend who didn't consider it fancy enough for him. The original owner was shot in the face and the stock still has two pellets in the wrist. I used to use it for shooting at dog trials. One thing about shotguns of this era is many had lots of drop in the stocks and you'll need to have a giraffe neck to shoot one. Mine fits perfectly like a glove.

The VH grade is considered the field grade. The Trojan was an economy model offered to compete on price. The chambers can be lengthened to 2 3/4" pretty easily (cheap), and if it fits you, the battle is won. Go get it. You want lose money on it at $850.


Charlie

A 20 guage Parker for $850.I'm surprised it was still there when you went back.

Here's a Parker Trojan grade basket case I wound up with thirty five yrs ago, there's a unfinished buttstock with it. I never have gotten around to doin' anything with it. It got stolen and I recovered it, but the kid that swiped it had polished "all that green stuff" off the metal. He was lucky I was feeling non homocidal, I tell you. Don't know what to do with it nowdays.

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Halfway and one more step

My 20 gauge Trojan Model. I had a gentleman rust blue the barrels about 30 or so years ago. He did what I thought was a very good job. There is no case hardening left on the receiver. The old wood, especially the butt stock, was in bad shape. These stocks tend to split right behind the receiver, especially when they are fired over a long period with high pressure ammo. The guy who did the barrels ordered a new stock, but it didn't fit. He wouldn't let me pay him for any of the work. A few years back, I took the old wood to another local craftsman. He worked some pretty good magic with some kind of miracle stock glue and some brass pins. His advice, and my decision, was to limit use of the old gun to a few shots per year with some low-pressure 2.5 inch shells.

I killed my first Bobwhite Quail with this shotgun, some 52-53 years ago. I can see it like it was last November. I didn't have a dog. I flushed a single bird out of a patch of broom sedge, and killed it with one shot. I was 11 years old, about to be 12. I immediately took the bird to my Granny. She showed me how to singe it after picking. She cooked it for my dinner. That's a million dollar memory.

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Georgia On My Mind

I had a Parker collection BD (before Divorce)
I have not purchased any since then.Too painful. If it is solid $850 seems cheap compared to what I see on them now.

It probably is a VH if it has auto ejection it is a VHE and much more valuable. I had 1 16 gauge and 5 various models in 12 gauge, the neatest one was a 2BBL set "A" grade. I once drove all the way across the state of Missouri in an ice storm to buy a Parker VHE in 410 gauge. My uncle had a friend who passed, he had Parkers in 410 and 20 gauge. His son got the 20 and his Daughter got the 410. I told my uncle who knew the family very well that I wanted to buy both if possible. The son drank too much and sold his 20 on the way to a bar after the funeral. The daughter finally said she would sell, single mother and needed the money. I was given a good price and took a few hundred more to give her. I knocked and was invited in, we talked about her Dad, how rough it was for a single Mother and several other issues. Finally she said you came in some really bad weather to get this gunI'll get it and show it to you, she said her uncle just brought it to her before the ice storm started.

I was sitting on the couch, she walked into the bedroom, reached into the closet and pulled out a 410 double. My heart stopped, I died a lot as she walked to me expecting nice money. When she turned away from the closet I saw a 311 Savage/Stevens. I died hard. I knew her uncle had just cheated her. I felt badfor her but knew if I told her her uncle had swapped it out she would not believe me, her Dad had just passed, no bad news from me, no sir. I told her as I now sit here I can not buy your fathers inheritance from you. I would not feel right. Have your uncle take you to a collector I know in that area, he will give top dollar. I called the collector and he had not been contacted. Don't know what happened. I had picked up my Dad and he waited in the RAM, he said where is it? I told him, he said he knew her Uncle, he was slime.

I have always thought the 12 ga. #2 and the #1 1/2 16 ga. were a little heavy but I once saw a 16 ga. on a #1 frame and it was really nice. I bet the 12 ga. on a #1 frame is a sight to see and hold. Larry

I was kinda surprised it was still there too, but that gun is a 12 ga, not a 20. The 20 I metioned belonged to my grandfather. I never shot it, but I remember seeing it when I was a kid.

I'll swing back by there in a few days. If it's still there I may rethink it. It looks a lot like the one Redlevel has pictured there, but his is probably a bit nicer. The fellow at the gun store said it had been refinished. It does not have automatic ejectors.

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John 3:16 .

When I was in college, one of my professors had a 12 gauge Trojan he wanted to sell. He knew of a man nearby that collected Parkers and thought he would carry it up there and see if he wanted it. Knowing I was interested in guns, he invited me along.

We drove up to a plain, brick ranch style house with a concrete block building at the rear. After the introductions, we wound through the house and got to this block building. The first thing you saw in a sort of foyer was a glass display case with several Grade C engraved S&W revolvers. I don't recall the models (this was well over 30 years ago). In an adjacent case, there was a 28 gauge AAHE labeled as previously belonging to Clark Gable. I thought I was impressed until we turned the corner and got into the main room.

Aside from full body mounts of deer, coveys of quail, turkeys, bobcats, foxes, various mounted fish, etc., both walls that ran the long axis of the room were solid vertical gun racks. I counted 128 doubles total, 95+% being Parkers....along with some English-made odds and ends. Also a few cases of shotgun shells, including some 8 gauge.

Until then, I had no idea that individuals actually owned that many guns PERIOD, let alone so many from one manufacturer. I know better now, of course, but was profoundly awestruck at the time.

The Trojan model is the same gun inside,,same internal parts as any of the other grades.
Dump the internals from a Trojan model on the bench and they are the same as from a D or B or AA.

One difference is the bbl 'dolls head extension' and the lack of it on later production Trojan models.

All the other hammerless PArkers have the same shaped dolls head extension to the bbl rib. This interlocks with the frame on top. There is no top bolting of the gun, only the one underlug holds everything shut.

On the Trojan,,early production has a dolls head but it shapped different from all the other Models. It is just a straight extended bar that interlocks with the frame,,no actual dolls head shape to it at all. A rib extension at best.
Late Trojan production deleted the dolls head extension all together and has a smooth breech face.

The frame of the Trojan is shaped slightly different than the rest of the models,,actually from not shaping it as much as the rest of the models to save time & money in production.
It's a simple process to hand file the Trojan frame to the standard Parker frame contour if someone wants that. Occasionally they do.

No engraving on the Trojan,,not even borders. The only thing is the hand cut 'Parker Bros.' on both sides of the frame.

The Parker barrel or joint roll can be quite easily removed and it's the part that the bbls pivot around and as such it wears.
It's not just a cylinder type shape however that can be easily replicated to a slightly larger diameter to take up any wear or mearly turned 180 to present a new face as can be done in some SxS's.
The part is a more complicated shape with splines on the ends to fit into slots in the frame and an extension on one surface that acts as the initial extractor.
I'm not aware of a source of slightly oversize Parker bbl pins, though no doubt w/ todays CNC and such the part can be replicated quite easily. I don't remember if Tony Galazan made and sold any.
We used to weld and recut the bbl hook on Parkers for off the face guns
Winchester 21's are the easy ones with the simple cylinder shaped bbl pin and available oversize ones for easy replacement.
Even then it usually takes some extra hand fitting to bring the bbls in correctly.

The Parker locking bolt plate that is replaceable is for fixing a worn locking bolt or plate itself. The over center,,passed 6'oclock top lever position is the sign of that problem and many times goes hand in hand with off the face bbls.

Look for the shade tree shim fix-it under the existing bolt plate to raise it a few .000" and 'tighten 'er up'.
A simple shim of aluminum foil is enough to give the feel of a tight lock system but it's just masking the real problem. Plus it begins to make the opening of the lever tougher and tougher as the locking bolt jams into place instead of it's normal wedge fit.
The bbls have to be on face to start with.
Those shim fixes can be hard to spot and easy to miss when looking over a gun. Kind of like the quick punch tighten up fix on AH Fox shotguns bbls.


** Old TexMex,,,,that's a VH model you have, not a Trojan.
..and that's a good pic of the standard dolls head extension found on all the Parker models except the Trojan.
Plus the wriggle cut border engraving of the V grade that the Trojan does not have.

2152hq:
Thank you for that excellent post. As said, I hadn't persued the project at all, but I should, since the parts are all there, even though the bbls are cut to 21 1/2" and the stock is in the rough. I don't know where ( 30+ yrs ago) the blank was acquired, but it has "parker" ink-stamped on it.
The forearm is quite fine, and it all locks up tight and proper.

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Halfway and one more step

I had noticed the dolls head locking lug in some pictures, but the gun I looked at didn't have one. The S/N is 205xxx if that tells anyone anything. It does have twin triggers. The "Parker Bros" on the right side of the fame is worn and faded, probably from being refinished, but I told my wife I'd like to think it was from riding in the crook of some old timers right arm. The stock showed just such a wear spot, and the checkering was worn down and almost smooth. (I had a mental image of an old man, wearing a brown canvas hunting coat, with a pipe clenched tightly in his teeth, holding it under his arm. Could have been my grandfather, but he smoked Salem's.)

Y'all are sure keeping me from just forgetting about it.

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John 3:16 .

Hate to help a junkie feed the habit, but buy the darn gun or tell us where it is. I think there are folks waiting in line for it.

This is such a great addiction

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always trust your cape...

I think the beginning point might be to read a book on Parkers. I think the author is Peter H. Johnson, but am going from memory.

I believe there are also modern repros from some outfit called maybe CT Valley Gun Company or something like that. They may be better choices for hunting.

It handles nice for me, I am not a real big dude {5'8"/190}...it would probably feel like a toy in John Wayne's hands. It's a DH and in 95% condition all original. Interesting story how I got the gun...a guy posted on another forum a few years back asking for some info regarding the value of his Parker. After I replied, the owner of this gun PM'ed me to ask about his. When I saw what it was I told him I would like to make him an offer. His reply was "sorry, I already have a deal to trade it for an AR-15." I jokingly said "I would have given you two of those for that shotgun and delivered them to your door" Six months later almost to the day he sends me a message asking "if I was serious about that two AR-15 offer??" Turned out we met halfway, he traveled alot for his job. The gun was in even better shape than the photos and when we met I had to ask why he was getting rid of it. He just said it wasn't his type gun...sometimes things just work out. You can best believe I paid dearly for the rest of the Parkers I own!!!

"....The S/N is 205xxx if that tells anyone anything."

Manufactured very late in 1923 or sometime in 1924.

The last # in 1923 was '205,150' according to the list I'm looking at.
I've used this list as a quick reference for gun shopping and it's always been accurate for me.

Serial # lists sometimes vary in print. The best one for Parkers is from 'The Parker Story' as it's from the factory records.

The original factory finish on the receiver, top lever and forend iron was color case hardening.
The trigger guard was a bright charcoal type blue,,the bbls rust blued.

The colors may wear off and the surface becomes gray or patina to brown from handling,,but Parker frames/top levers/forend irons were never originally blued.

Not unusual to see refinished Parkers. Many reblued both hot salt type and rust blued finishes.
Many were also re-case color hardened. Some w/a cyanide color finish, (and that's the same type Remington used after taking control of Parker in '35).
Some re-done w/a bone/charcoal case color type.

It's expensive to do now as opposed to 25 yrs ago. To do a 'V' or Trojan usually doesn't pay for the owner looking to resell it.
At one time it did, and many (many!) were redone as well as high grades,,and upgrades.
Some of those bone & charcoal re-cased guns are now 25 & 30yr old refinishes and have the look of a well preserved original.
Buyer beware once again.
..and NO,,they we not marked in any way to show they were re-done.
Upgrades were re-numbered to match known examples of high grade guns, BBl markings changed.
Then the factory serial number shipping records surfaced and got published,,and a lot of that monkey business stopped.

Oh. Its at Greentops near Richmond VA. Their adds have been running at the top of the forum recently. Feel free to contact them if you're interested.

Edited to add: Well my wife told me to shut up about it or put in on layaway, so I called and told them to hold it for me if it was still there. I haven't heard back from them, so I guess it was still there.

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John 3:16 .

Here's my one and only Parker left, a VH grade 12 ga, straight stock, 26" barrels, imp and mod. The one with the pellets in the right side of the wrist.