7.65mm Argentine? Time to replace my Krags and Carcanos...

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GatorFarmer

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...So naturally I wanted something sleek and modern, modern being late 19th century technology.

I like sporterized military rifles. I really like sporterized military rifles that were made before 1899. These are legally antiques under the GCA '68. Being sporters I do not have to compete with military collectors, and being antiques I do not need an FFL to have one simply shipped to my door.

As of late, I had been somewhat lacking in terms of having a modern sporting rifle in .30 or larger. A modern sporting rifle of course being a repeating breech loader that uses self contained metallic catridges...

Thus using my meager pennies and a bit of shopping around, I found a sporterized Argentine Mauser configured how I like....shortened...metal in good shape....old receiver sight... perfect. Total cost including shipping comes in at less than a recent production entry level mass market rifle with Chinese scope.

So I am thinking that this ought work. Compared to the .30-40 Krag and particularly the 7.35 mm Carcano, ammo seems to be almost plentiful.

I have not had a 7.65mm Argentine in years, my previous exposure being a project gun that never ceased being a project.

Am I correct in my understanding that my new to me old Mauser, made before the 20 th Century began, should suffice for most things that I may want a rifle for? I saw that Norma still offers precision hunting ammunition in this caliber.
 
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My Uncle lent me his 7.65 Argentine Mauser with a 4 power scope on it when I expessed an interest in deer hunting(I was round 15 then). Never shot a deer but it was fun an expensive shooting that norma ammo!!
 
Nice rifle, and a very interesting stock rendition. I like it!

My late father shot an 1891 Argentine Mauser all his adult life, and reared four kids on deer meat (and later a few pigs) taken with that rifle. Once I got old enough to start loading for him, the load was Norma brass, CCI 200s, and 45 grains of IMR 4895 behind a 150-grain .311" projectile, either Hornady or Speer, but sometimes I went with Sierras as well.

As I am sure you know, the 7.65 X 53 is the ballistic equivalent of the .308, and there are certainly no flies on that round!
 
I got one a few months ago trading a 22 rifle.Mine however has the forearm shortened like a modern rifle and is not as attractive as the Manlicher style you have ,also just original sights .I haven't shot it yet.
 
I got my first one for $19.95 out of a barrel in the Woolworth's. Surplus ammo was $2.99 in the Montgomery Wards catalog. The only hunting loads available at the time were Norma and not cheap. It was a good shooter. It took several deer in as issued condition.

BTW thanks for the reminder. I need to get the one I found recently out and measure the spacing of the wires that hold the top wooden hand guard on so I can order a correct replacement. Fortunately only the wood was hacked on this one, the metal parts are all intact.
 
Doubless said:
Nice rifle, and a very interesting stock rendition. I like it!

My late father shot an 1891 Argentine Mauser all his adult life, and reared four kids on deer meat (and later a few pigs) taken with that rifle. Once I got old enough to start loading for him, the load was Norma brass, CCI 200s, and 45 grains of IMR 4895 behind a 150-grain .311" projectile, either Hornady or Speer, but sometimes I went with Sierras as well.

As I am sure you know, the 7.65 X 53 is the ballistic equivalent of the .308, and there are certainly no flies on that round!
Click to expand...

I always thought it was ballistic equivalent of the 303 Brit. Either way neither of them are weak
 
34 years ago a couple of guys invited me to go deer hunting. I did not own a rifle. I quickly picked up a cut down 1891 Argentine for $50 and a box of Hornady .312” 150 grain spire points then borrowed a die set and shortened .30-06 brass. With younger eyes it shot very well.

Norma 150 grain cartridges were advertised at a higher velocity than any of my reloading manuals showed, 2800 fps IIRC.

Norma brass was an unnecessary expense for an inexpensive rifle. I never did own a piece of brass head stamped 7.65. I found an easy way to shorten brass. First full length size with the 7.65 die. The end of the neck portion of the die is easy to see on the long case. Cut them off slightly longer than that with a small tubing cutter, flare the pinched in neck back out with a tapered punch, run them through the FL die again then your case trimmer. I never had to thin or anneal necks. That was faster than an RCBS file trim die.
 
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The Krag has been plagued by having only seasonal loads available from Winchester and Remington. As of late I think Winchester has skipped seasons and Remington seems to have inconsistent quality on their recent runs. Prives have also doubled on Krag ammo, from 20 a box to 40 a box in the last few years.

Prvi offers 7.65mm Mauser, as does Hornady and of course the Norma offerings. The Prvi is quite reasonable.

Yes, I could just get a Mosin, but that would not be quite as interesting...
 
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Looks like a handy rifle. Yes it'll do anything you need it to do as a 'deer rifle' type firearm.
The Loewe/Berlin mfg puts it 1896 or before in age. DWM continued to make them after that.
About the same tech era as your Carcano and Krag,,but something different to play with. Can't beat that!
Nice smooth actions. They use a small snap/hook extractor unlike the rest of the Mausers that use the standard long claw and collar on the bolt.
The ground off crest on the top of the rec'vr ring is not at all uncommon for the surplused rifles from the 50s and 60's.

You sometimes run accross older sets of dies marked 7.65 B/Mauser (Belgian Mauser). They are the same caliber as the 7.65 Argentine Mauser. Speer used to make (maybe they still do) a .314 bullet for these. I used to use them in my 303Enfields more than I ever did in an Argentine Mauser.
 
I have an Argentine engineers carbine in 7,65 arg somewhere. I picked up two cases of surplus ammo years ago. I also have some priv- partisan ammo for it from AIM Surplus
 
I ordered three boxes of ammo from Graf & Sons tonight. We shall see how it digests 174gr fmj made by Prvi. It comes out to a dollar a round with shipping. I may have to see about getting a gas port hole drilled on each side ala some later designs.

My Krag and Carcanos have not sold on consignment yet, so I can always revert. My Carcanos were WW2 era, thus youngsters. My Krag was old enough to have visited Cuba and the Phillipines.

I am guessing the Argentine once sold through an ad in American Rifleman and then became someone's project to work on. The included sling and receiver sight make me think that it has not sat idle, but likely served someone well.

Prvi ammo tends to give mixed results in old rifles, but it beats throwing rocks should need for the rifle arise. Like many an old sporter, a polished up veteran old battle rifle lays beneath.
 
I have a couple sportered 1891 mausers. Few rifles with actually minimal work done to them and one drilled and tapped for a scope. And one of the little carbines. In fact my first argie was a full length rifle I bought through the mail in the late 60's in NYC try doing that today. Norma had their 150 grain bullet zipping along at 2900 feet per second. So for handloading norma brass was the only game in town. Surplus ran about 10 Bucks a hundred which was mostly ball ammo along with some hirtenberger patronon 1928 dated armor piercing. Used baiscally a 150 grain softpoint bullet 40 grains 4895 and a rem large rifle primer. Decently accurate and well within minute of deer. Over the years have aquired a few bubbas for parts and stocks. I seriously think a lot of people underestimate the ballistics of the 150 grain bullet and would not feel undergunned if I were in the woods hunting. Grafs and others sell the PPU brand 7.65 with a 180 grain bullet. Really makes my little carbine a "thumper" at both ends. Next step is to slug the carbines bore and get me a cast bullet mold for it.As my eyes get older I sometimes have problems with long barreled rifles, but at the present I can still use the sights on the carbine. Frank
 
Frank,
I found Lee’s C312-185-1R mold to be accurate in SMLEs, 7.65 Mausers, 7.7 Type 99 Arisakas, and Mosin-Nagants. After load experimentation I reliably got 10 shot 100 yard groups 3” or less with open sights or 2” or less with peep sights. Iron molds are nicer to cast from but Lee’s humble inexpensive .303 mold was my most useful .31 caliber mold. Its biggest draw back was that it was only available as a single cavity. It’s now two cavity and Lee’s kept their MSRP $26 with handles.

When I read that GatorFarmer was happy he found 7.65 cartridges for $1 each I couldn’t keep from comparing that to a primer and gas check for under 1 cent each, powder at $10 pound and $20 for a 5 gallon bucket of scrap wheel weights. It’s been a while since I reloaded for 7.65 Mauser.
 
I have no idea whether the Serbian or Swedish commercial loads are meant for use in M-91 rifles or for the M-1909, which has a M-98 design and is much stronger.

Better check.
 
There seems to be no explicit warning from either company limiting the action used, however it is a good point. I called Hornady, who's ammunition in that caliber is sood through Graf and Sons. They advise that any rifle in good working condition is fine. A bit of checking online turns up many anecdotal users of 7.65 Prvi and Norma in 1891 Argentines. Both seem to have a reputation for good brass. If I like the rifle, I will see about adding gas escape holes. The 1891 of course has two lugs rather than three as on the 98 Mausers. The Krag has only a single lug by way of contrast.

Though a frowned upon conversion now, some 1891s were apparently converted to .30-06 and sold cheaply in the 1950s.

It is interesting that these rifes used to sell for what a box of ammo costs for them now.
 
My Dad had one of those as his deer rifle. Then he bought a Remington automatick 30-06 model 742.

I bought that Mauser off him about 10 years ago for $100.00. I had to pay him in the garage so my mom didn't see it.

My son shoots it now, we use 314 cast boolits and 12.5 grains promo (red dot). It shoots great with military sights.

David
 
7.65 Argentine

In February 1982, American Rifleman published my article entitled, "A New Home For a Semi-sporter." In it, I describe returning a 7.65 Argentine Mauser to hunting duty. Incidentally, with the right hand loads, my Argentine shot 3-shot, 5/8" groups on the 100 yard bench. I'm not sure if I can find my copy of the article and I don't know if it can be requested from American Rifleman.

And yes, a 7.65 will easily take anything you could take with a .30-06 or .308.
 
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