My "Thompson" submachine gun

I remember as a kid watching Combat with my Dad. As I recall the only shows he watched regularly were Combat and Gunsmoke.

Wheaties Thompson

DWalt said:

Back when I was a kid, one of my favorite toys was a Thompson squirt gun. It was plastic and about half-scale (no buttstock though), but the molding was very detailed. It held a lot of water, far more than a squirt pistol, and put out a powerful stream. I have fired many full auto weapons, but a Thompson is not one of them.

Click to expand...

I had a plastic squirt gun Thompson in the mid-1950s that came with a butt stock. It was the neighborhood terror because of the volume of water it held. I got it for two Wheaties box tops and 50¢ . It lasted about 1 full summer before a seam cracked and water leaked out.

sheepdawg said:

My dad thought it belittled Germans, he absolutely despised Col. Klink. I can hear him now, "That fool wouldn't have lasted 30 minutes in the Luftwaffe." "He be busted to private and put on the next train for Russia if he was lucky."

Fortunately my father was treated very well by the Americans.

Click to expand...

I remember my mother, who was a teen during the war, speaking of German and Italian POW's working on the farms in the area where she grew up. She said the word was that they were captured in North Africa for the most part, and almost none of them spoke any English. She did say with a wink and smile, that those German and Italian's were fine looking young men.

To keep this sort of on topic, I too had one of those Mattel Thompson's when I was a kid. I kept the Germans from overrunning eastern Hanover County, Virginia for years with it.

Had a M1A1 while in Vietnam, traded for it from a ARVN sergeant. That one was made by Savage, WW2 vintage (also saw variations by Colt and Auto Ordnance). Relatively crude construction, compared to the 1921 and 1928 models. No compensator, stamped sheet metal rear sight, 20-round stick magazines only (would not accept the drums). Reasonably accurate to about 75 yards or so, not great at longer ranges even on semi-auto. Heavy to carry, but the weight provided pretty good control on full-auto.

Couple of years later I was on a city police department with 6 Model 1921's sitting in the armory. Apparently it had been quite some time since there was anyone who knew how to properly field-strip and clean them. I spent a few days doing that, then test-firing at the range, re-cleaning and putting them back in the vault. Shortly thereafter some genius arranged to trade them in on Colt AR-15's; IIRC the department got $300 each in trade allowance. We had a small mountain of surplus GI ammo including WW1 (1917 and 1918 headstamps) and WW2 (both brass and steel cased). I was able to liberate as much as I wanted for $0.05 per round, which I used for several years and continue to reload the brass cases now over 40 years later.

Shortly before I retired (1995) I saw Century International Arms flyers offering M1 and M1A1 Thompsons to law enforcement agencies only, priced at $250 each. Tempting, but no way to ever transfer for private ownership.

"I remember my mother, who was a teen during the war, speaking of German and Italian POW's working on the farms in the area where she grew up. She said the word was that they were captured in North Africa for the most part, and almost none of them spoke any English."

That is true. There were huge numbers of Germans and Italians captured in North Africa, and it was easier to send them back to the US in empty boats (no shortage of those) than it was to bring in all the food and supplies that would be necessary to sustain them in POW camps located in North Africa. I guess had I been a German POW, I would have far rather sat out the war in some Texas POW camp doing menial labor than being on the eastern front fighting Russians. On the whole, the German POWs were a docile lot, they knew they had it good here, far better than Allied POWs in German camps. There were always some die-hard Nazi troublemakers in the US POW camps, but they were kept segregated from the average Feldgrau grunts who weren't really Nazis. Most of the US POW camps were located in relatively remote areas so there weren't any nearby larger cities they could easily run to and hide if they escaped.

CptCurl said:

Owning and shooting the real deal is actually a lot of fun!

Curl

Click to expand...

A clear case of money in the right hands.

I shot a full Auto Thompson and a full Auto m14. The barrel rise was bad on the m14 the LGS owner didn't warn me. I held it down once I felt it.

Kirby has the best weapon on combat the browning BAR.

CajunBass said:

I remember my mother, who was a teen during the war, speaking of German and Italian POW's working on the farms in the area where she grew up. She said the word was that they were captured in North Africa for the most part, and almost none of them spoke any English.

Click to expand...

My German-speaking uncle had German prisoners working on his Idaho farm.

I was in Las Vegas about 12 years ago while on a Motorcycle trip. We stopped by one of the places that rents machine guns and I rented a Thompson. I still grin ear to ear when ever I look at the picture one of my bud's took while I was shooting it. Lots of fun and easy to keep on target once you get the hang of it. Unfortunately for me, my State forbids them.

I have one of the TSMG plug fire replica made by Hudson Model Co/Japan. Don't remember where I picked it up.

Blank firing using a special cartridge that is reloadable. Fires full or semi and from an open bolt, takes down as orig, ect.
These were made in the 80's and early 90's.
The plug fire cartridge (PFC) blow back system was used on several different 'model' guns by Hudson and another mfg'r (MGC ?) at the time. Handguns as well as other SMG like the MP40, M3, ect.

Often used for screen and theatrical use as no licenses were required.
Lots of noise, flash, smoke and brass ejecting. A pain 'reloading' the 3 piece cartridges though!
I'll see if I can find it and post a pic or two.

I bought one of those Japanese replica Thompson's many years ago when I lived In NY State. After I escaped from there in 95 the first Class III I bought was a Colt 21/28. Love that MG. It's one I'll never sell. Still have the Japanese replica.

I bought this from family of former KCPD officer stated was the officers while on KCPD.

When I was on the USS Hawkins (1972), they would bring out a couple Thompsons, and let us shoot at trash boxes tossed over.
We could shoot as long as we were not on duty, and as long as our thumb could last reloading the magazine.

I was not a gun nut then,, I probably shot ~1,000 rounds total,,,

My neighbor recently (several years ago) sold his, to get the cash to buy a VW diesel,,,

He likes the diesel, I still tell him he is crazy,,,

He says he got enough cash to buy the VW and a half dozen handguns.
He feels he gets more entertainment out of the handguns, he shoots them more often.

Here's mine. I use it to pluck Cicadas off our trees and shoot the feral cats that come around.

Years ago one of my neighbors actually fired off a machine gun outside of his house. BRRRRRRRIT BRRRRRRRRRIT. I never saw the gun but there was no doubt what I heard.

Click to expand...

The son of a friend of mine showed up at my house and said he wanted to show me his AK-47. He said he had been working on it. He pulled it out and proceeded to show me that me had made it into a full auto - he shot it at MY HOUSE because his dad had dared him to shoot it at their house. Gee thanks pal. When the neighbors call the fuzz and they show up I'll be sure and mention your name and you can pay for a lawyer for both of us. Except he couldn't afford a lawyer for himself much less me.

What did I do? I figured I was already at risk so I fired it myself just for the giggles and then I sent him down the road. I would have still flipped on him if the feds showed up. Luckily my neighbors didn't call the cops. They have their own legal issues "ahem".

DWalt said:

Long ago, I worked with a vet who had been a POW in a German camp. As a result of that experience he had a bitter hatred for all Germans and wasn't bashful about letting the world know his feelings.

Click to expand...

I also worked with a WWII Vet who was shot in the face by a German soldier. He lost part of his jaw and was scarred up. We worked at the Tank Plant by Cleveland Hopkins Airport and were in Plant Protection. Allison Division, which was running the plant, got a contract to build a Main Battle Tank in co-operation with the Germans. The guy I worked with was sitting at a desk in the main lobby checking personnel in, and when some of the German engineers came in, he made some very snide remarks about Germans. They had to remove him from the post because of his language towards the German personnel, and was not allowed to work that post again. He was a good guy, but carried a deep and hateful grudge against the Germans because of what happened.

iPac said:

Cool.

Somebody local has a Detonics? brand non-firing reproduction for sale. It looks pretty realistic too, even slightly more than yours.

Wouldn't mind owning the real deal, or at least shooting the real deal.

Click to expand...

Some years ago, there were two gun shops in Vegas with indoor ranges (don't know if they're still there; NV is still a red state, I hope). One could select from a bevy of automatic weapons. I fired two sticks through a Thompson. What fun, but it does walk up.

I was in a one man FBI Resident Agency (RA) in Twin Falls, and had 8 counties in my territory. I was my usual charming self and made pals with 7 Sheriffs and a couple of dozen Chiefs of Police, but one Sheriff was a tough nut to crack. He had no use for the Feebs, and he would actually have his guys follow me to the county line whenever I was in his county.

Then, I had our HQ send me this:







I showed up with it and a case of .45 ACP ammo and asked how would like to give it a try?

Soon we were at his range. Deputies showed up, then had their kids come. We burned up that case of "liaison ammo", then broke out another.

He may have still not liked me after that, but his guys did, and they stopped following me everywhere I went.

I retired over a year ago. I refused to have a retirement party, as I had refused going-away toodoos whenever I had transferred. I don't like being the center of attention, and I really don't like guys younger than me (everyone) digging into their pockets for a gift. On my last day I found this on my desk, with no comment from anyone.





Its not a real Thompson, but it's damn close. It weighs the same, and the bolt and magazine work. The knuckleheads dug into their pockets and got it for me.

The saying goes: I grew to hate the circus, but I always loved the clowns.

Can someone simply summarize the differences between the M-1921 and M-1928?

Difference between M1921 and M1928 explained.

The M-1921 was the first Thompson submachine gun commercially produced. Exactly 15,000 were made during 1921-22 by Colt under contract from Auto-Ordnance Corporation (which had no production capability). Their serial numbers ranged from 41 to 15040. These were all built for speculation or inventory and were warehoused by Auto-Ordnance. Sales trickled out but were not robust. There were no military contracts at this time.







The firing rate of the M1921 is 800 to 900 rounds per minute.

In 1928 the U.S. Marines were having a little "police action" in the jungles of Nicaragua. Wanting a better close combat automatic weapon than the BAR, they bought a few M1921 Thompsons for trial. They liked it but thought it was wasteful of ammunition. They agreed to buy a quantity provided the firing rate could be reduced to about 600 rounds per minute.

Auto-Ordnance modified existing M1921 guns to slow their firing rate. Doing this they added mass to the actuator (riveted on a bar of steel), and replaced the recoil spring, its guide rod and buffer. The Marines liked it and initially ordered 500, adopting it into the military as the "Model of 1928."

Auto-Ordnance filled this order from existing inventory of M1921 guns, modifying each as mentioned. On each gun so modified they hand stamped an "8" over the "1" of the "Model of 1921." rollmark. Above this modified rollmark they hand stamped "U.S. Navy". They also offered the same modification commercially, marked the same way. Collectors refer to these as the 1928 Navy or the 1921-28 overstamp. All of these came from original inventory of 15,000 guns and bear their original serial numbers. These all have the Cutts Compensator, whereas some of the original 1921 guns were sold without a Cutts (another whole story in itself).

This is a photo from a Julia auction:




The modification required absolutely no change to the receiver or lower frame. Thus, owners of a M1921 can switch to M1928 firing configuration simply by switching the original Colt internal parts mentioned with army surplus M1928A1 parts (actuator, recoil spring, guide rod, and buffer). The gun then shoots exactly as a M1928. For someone as clumsy as me it takes about 2 minutes to switch back and forth.

The original inventory of 15,000 Colt made guns was still slow to sell during peacetime between WW1 and WW2. However, as WW2 started brewing in Europe in the late 1930s, interest developed in this weapon. With the opening of hostilities, orders soon exhausted Auto-Ordnance's inventory. Still having no production capability, they sought new production by a contractor.

Colt refused to make any more Thompsons, saying the "gangster era" had nearly ruined their reputation. To this date Colt has never made another Thompson; thus, the original 15,000 Colt guns are the darlings of collectors.

Savage took up the contract and eventually made close to 1.5 million Thompsons. These began with the serial number 15041. They were made to M1928 specs and initially were marked "Model of 1928". On adoption by the U.S. Army they became the "Model of 1928A1". Later in the war Auto-Ordnance developed manufacturing capacity and produced several hundred thousand of these.

The Model of 1928A1 went through several design changes, becoming the Model M1, followed by the M1A1.

The only M1921 Thompsons ever made were the original batch of 15,000 made in 1921-22.

That's the short story. For full details there are quite a few reference works out there.

Curl