You sir, are a prince! Thank you so much for that.

A related story was that the first prototype gun was chambered in .45 ACP. And there is no known prototype in 10mm.

Another story is that the two Sonny Crockett guns used in Miami Vice for two seasons were highly modified BTs converted to use .45 ACP blanks, as there were no 10mm blanks available.

D&D made 250 Brens chambered for 45 ACP for The Marksman Gunshop in the Chicago area. They were specially marked and had different serial numbers.

The Miami Vice was Bren was a 45 ACP version with the slide marking changed is all because of the blank situation you mention. The slide was hard chromed to show up during the night firing scenes.

If you look at the picture of my Brens earlier in this thread, the two guns in the presntation cases are Dual Masters and have both 10mm uppers and 45 acp uppers.

45 acp Brens are very common.

Miami in the 80s cool 😎
Miami Vice TV Show- still cooler 😎😎
Bren Ten 10 mm - even cooler 😎😎😎
Hollywood making billions on action films and genuflects to the demonization of firearms- not cool at all!

My apologies, Beemer1. When you posted the photo earlier, I thought it was merely a stock photo of assorted Brens. I had no idea this was your own collection. Well done, that man! My hat's off to you sir. I envy both your gorgeous collection and your unswerving commitment.

I have a Bren 10 Military and Police I purchased from a friend some time ago. I was after him for a couple years to buy it, finally one day he called with a price. At that time they were pricey but still affordable. The gun was a novelty and for a time I shot it often at my range and a couple of local matches.The Norma ammo flattened pins but I liked it better out of a 610. Ounce I had brass all my ammo was handloaded. This pistol shoots and functions well.It always manages to draw questions at the range.Size is comparable to my 1076,it handles and points better than a 645.I managed to pick up 2 more mags along with the one that came with it.Over the years I have shot a few Standard Models and one Marksman model that I really liked.The Military and Police model I have is the only one I have seen.I will try to post a few pictures.

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SWCA#2288
SWHF#407

For those of you that own one, is it ramped or throated? Thanks!

Both the 10mm Bren Tens and the Marksman Specials (45 acp) have ramped barrels.

This thread has had a lot of interest so here is a run down of the different models that D&D sold.

First, here is a standard model which is a 10mm. The serial number is comprised of the year of mfg (1983), the letters S & M for Standard Model, and the serial number.

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Here is a Marksman Special Bren chambered for 45 acp. The Marksman Gunshop in the Chicago area ordered and sold these, there were 250 of them.

The serial number is self explanatory. They also sold about 100 of the padded cases for these pistols, they were an extra and about 100 were sold.

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Here is a Bren Ten Military and Police in 10mm. They are the same pistol as the standard model only the frame is coated black also.

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Here is a pair of Bren Special Forces Models. They made them as both light and dark. They have 4" barrels as opposed to the normal 5".

Notice the serial numbers specifying color.

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Here is the top of the line as far as Bren Tens go, the Dual Master Set. There were less than 50 of these produced. They came in a wood presentation case and had both a 10mm upper and a 45 acp upper.

The bluing on the slides was more polished on the DM's and the stainless frame flats were polished. Some light scroll engraving was done on the slides also.

The serial numbers on all the DM's ended in "00".

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Here is an interesting Bren. It is a standard model with an "API" serial number. API stand for Americdan Pistol Institute which was owned by Jeff Cooper and the predecessor to Gunsite Ranch. These were Bren Tens sold or given to Special Shooters connected with API. It is thought that less than six of these exist.

Notice the serial number that looks like the date 10-19-36. I have not been able to find any leads on what it signifies so far.

Anyone have any ideas?

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I have one of the Airsofts.

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My 10mm Witness dressed up in two tone.

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I have been trying to find one of those for years too...

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Plastic has no soul

10-19-36.....the Colonel and Countess's anniversary? My parents were nearly the same age as they were, they got married in '37. Just a guess.
I knew the Colonel some, not as well as others, I never found him to be an ***, as was hinted at here by someone.
As to the Bren, I wonder how some would feel if the Glock had failed? I don't know why some people seem to celebrate a guns demise. I wish the Bren had been a success. I wish the Detonics was still around. (Sonny carried one of those too, remember?) It's like gun owners, I for one am glad to see the huge numbers of minority women, and women in general getting armed up. The only way we preserve our rights is to exercise them. The more of us that do the better.
Back to the Bren, I never did understand why Vltor couldn't pull it off. They made a lot of cool stuff that seemed high quality, they couldn't get the Bren up and running? Did Detonics suffer the same fate? How is it a guy from Austria can make a success story out of plastic but Americans can't put together what could be a very good pistol?
Eugene Stoner made a gun with a lot of flaws, and yet who doesn't own one? John Browning "improved" the 1911 in 1935 and yet which is in more holsters today? (in America anyway.)
Cursed? Perhaps. I for one would like to see someone produce the thing. Would I buy one? Sure. Put me down as a yes. I'd love to at least see a successful American company bang out something that would just say "cool."

The downfall of D&D was undercapitalization. Very common among startups, underestimating the amount of funding required to set up development, manufacturing, and distribution operations and not being able to come up with it later. There was nothing wrong with the product when introduced but it was poorly brought to market by leaving the magazine availability and quality problems, etc. unresolved. I’d guess the potential successor organizations, Peregrine and Vltor, figured out that its day in the sun was over and that there were better uses for their capital than making the BT. Time always marches on, and the parade passed by the BT.

Interesting. Gun Stories episode on the Outdoor channel this week was about the Bren Ten. Used to see them occasionally at gun shows back when. Don't recall what the going price was, wasn't interested, still not. There are other makes of 10mm available that function dependably, have magazines, and accessories.

As you can see I like Bren Tens and if they were available again, I would probably buy one.

That said, there is nothing magical about the design, they basically just upsized a CZ 9mm to handle a 45 acp which in turn would handle the new 10mm auto cartridge. I certainly would not put any money down on a pistol to be made in the future or invest any money in an upstart venture to manufacture them again.

Jeff Cooper never invested a dime in the Bren Ten venture either.

If it upped the supply of Steyr GB magazines I'd be OK with that.

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Release the Kraken

My feeling is that the BT has passed into the realm of non-shooting collectibles. If someone wants a 10mm to use, there are many other and better choices available on the market. Those who would be happy with a fairly close facsimile of a BT for shooting need look no further than finding an all-steel EAA Witness. In your choice of calibers (including 10mm, .45, .40, .38 Super and 9mm).

I had to have imported from Hong Kong when they first came out. The air soft Bren Ten 8mm will blow through both sides of an aluminum can.

They're almost harder to find than their namesake. It's a pity no one makes a proper pellet version - in full Sonny Crockett white metal, of course. There's plenty of supermarket-price-gun autos in .177, but no Bren Ten and no Browning Hi-Power.

If I could find one exactly like that I think I buy it. Only thing better would be if it was two toned. Seems all that I see now have a rail on them which is a deal breaker for me. Very nice gun!!

Dan

I have that one's twin, they call it a Wonderfinish. Bought the first one I saw at a gun show maybe 15+ years ago. Paid $330 for it. No idea what they are going for these days. I was buying 10MMs when they weren't the cool thing.

edit:
Now that I think about it, when I bought mine, it was before the Clinton bill sunset, so had to be before 2004. Mine came with 10 round mags and I had to buy the 15 rounders after 2004.

Rosewood

There is a long story about my Witness. I originally bought it out of my own pocket back in the mid-00s to use as a test bed for a USAF ammunition development and evaluation project for a potential new service handgun being considered at that time. I won’t go into details, but I had a barrel chambered in 9x23 Winchester made for it. I also got a 9mm barrel and the .45 ACP conversion components. I fired at least 2000 rounds of 9x23 Win through it during that project along with several thousand more through a M1911A1 set up with a 9x23 barrel and 9mm slide. Both guns handled all of those hot loads (124 gr FMJ bullets at around 1450 ft/sec) without any damage or malfunctions. Aside from its weight, I can say nothing bad about the Witness.

I have zero interest in either an original or a remake.

So, we'll put you down as a "maybe", then?

My single experience shooting a full size Bren Ten with the Norma factory load in 2008, despite that piece's trigger cocking mode being inoperable, showed it to be a very comfortable, accurate piece. I didn't care for the crossbolt safety feature, same as I dislike it on certain lever guns, but the overall appearance of the thing was lovely, well machined and finished. That particular example had apparently been abused and despite that still functioned fine in self cocking mode and felt great.

I've been following this thread for days and only just remembered as I was tidying up my gear, that I have my own contribution to Bren Ten memorabilia: About a year ago I picked up off the web a set of RCBS dies labeled "4 die set 40 caliber Bren Ten". They look to be BNIB, even the label looks new. Guy bought them years ago and never used them, and they'd been sitting in a drawer. I never found out for sure, but I suspect he'd gotten them for a Bren that never materialized. They'd been advertised on one of our Canadian sites but didn't sell, so I managed to contact the seller. He was a nice guy who'd seemingly forgotten about them, and we made a deal. I already have 10 mm dies, so I have no intention of using them. I just bought them for the cool factor. I tried to post a photo, but the forum only accepts URL's.

CZ makes the CZ97 in .45 auto. The gun could EASILY be converted to 10mm with a simple slide mod, different mag...that's about it. THAT is about as close to how a Bren Ten looks as real money can buy REAL product, and CZ could bring it in for the same price as the .45 version.

Having said that, the .45 auto can EASILY be elevated to 600 fpe energy levels with very little strain on a properly set-up handgun.

The 97 has been discontinued.


CZ97 discontinued


Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

I handled a couple of CZ-97's. To me, they felt larger and heavier than the large frame EAA Witness pistols. Was the CZ-97 a good candidate for being chambered in 10mm Auto? Yes, and many people begged CZ for such a thing, but CZ refused.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

The biggest problem is they are steel, not carbide, dies.

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EAA/Tanfoglio makes some fine guns.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

I do enjoy all of the responses but alternatives like the CZ or Witness are not Bren Tens...close but as Monica used to say....no cigar.

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Plastic has no soul

True, but I've been using the same set of .45 ACP steel dies for years. They still work fine. Besides, these are for looking, not using. The ground is littered with .40 S&W / 10 mm carbide die sets for reloading.

By the way, was the label on yours always white(ish), or was it originally yellow also?

A shooting buddy and I had Bren Tens on order, and were ecstatic when we received word that ours were almost ready to be shipped . . . . until we read the part where "magazines are expected to be shipped soon". Order canceled . . .

That was a poison pill for us; we immediately ordered a couple of Delta Elites. (Wish I still had mine )

Was the best bowling pin gun I ever had. In anticipation of receiving the Brens we had gone in together and had purchased 500 rounds of factory Norma hollow point ammo to split. Bowling pin killers ! Many pins hit just under the logo were thrown at least 5-6 feet behind the table, and the nose of the hollow point could be seen pushing against the plastic (often split) on the back side of the pin. No over penetration and total energy dump in the pin.

I've fought the urge to buy another 10mm for several years now . . . like the looks of the Witnesses but the only one I seriously considered was the Glock 29SF. But the Delta was sold somewhere around 40 years ago when I had a use for a 10mm. The Glock 29 isn't exactly "comfortable" to shoot with my (now) arthritic hands so I guess I'll stick with my G27 . . .

Guess I'd be one to "pass" on a reissued Bren Ten these days - different time, different needs, different perspective. Gotta admit though, Sonny Crockett made it look cool . . .

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Qui plantavit curabit

Well Don, apparently May think the Tanfoglio is a Bren substitute?

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Is that a holo sight on it? I didn't know they made them back then.

I think that's from Nash Bridges (2021).

Looks like he still can't keep his finger off the trigger...

Ahh, makes more sense, that is why he looks so old.


Finger on the trigger is one of the Hollywood Follies.

Rosewood

I was totally unaware of this until you posted about it, but then it wasn't shown on our TV. I did look it up on IMDB. I can't believe they destroyed the car and replaced it with modern plastic ****!!! At least his pistol was made of Man Metal. He's have looked more believable if he'd shaved off that scruffy beard. The red dot was a realistic concession to his age, though. I'm still sorry I didn't get to see it.

Okay, now I know that I'm officially living in some bizarro universe.

1. Last night I saw an ad for another one of those idiotic dating shows called "Farm Date" or something similar.

2. This morning, while searching Chapters website for a book that had "safari" in the title, one of the results was a book entitled "Hot Girl Safari", with a big green sticker on the cover proclaiming "non-nude U.S. prison friendly edition". We're seriously rating books now on whether or not they're approved by the prison service???

3. This website actually censored the word spelled see-are-eh-pee from my last post. What kind of limp-wristed, bible-thumping Priscillas are running this place???

Please beam me back to normality. Anybody. Now would be great.

I'm surprised they let me say "pee".

The whole Nash Bridges 2021 Film is available on YouTube.

Well, now I know what I'm going to be passing my rainy Friday night with - thanks, surfgun!