The Bren Ten Curse

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

It seems much of the appeal of the Bren Ten was it was based on the CZ design which were unobtainable at the time due to the Iron Curtain. When that was lifted and the real CZs became available.....

 

[ohioan55]

I walked into a local gun store one day, the 10mm was at its lowest point of interest by gun enthusiasts,,

Another customer was discussing a gun he had on consignment, from across the store, I noticed it was a Gold Cup,, and looked nice, from a distance.

Well, when the guy walked out, I followed him, and asked if there was anything wrong with the gun,, he said "No",,

I asked what he was trying to get for the Gold Cup, he said $300.
(The gun had a price tag was marked $350)

I told him, go in, get the gun, I would give him the $300 for it right now..

When he came out, he was carrying a BOX full of stuff.
I had my car trunk open, he set the box in the trunk.
Besides the gun and original case, there was a holster, two full boxes of factory ammo, 200 or 300 unfired brass, primers, powder, 300 jacketed bullets, 200 lead bullets, and the reloading dies!!

I gave him the money, then he said that the gun had been on consignment so long, that he thought the gun would NEVER sell.

The only thing odd about it is the fact that when factory ammo is fired, the brass will fly 30 feet to the side,,.
I always told people that the gun must have been designed to shoot in two directions at the same time!!

For over two years, the Delta Gold Cup was my favorite 1911. I have a 1911 in .45,, but, it sat and was never fired during that time.
I bought more brass, and I even have a Dillon "Border Shift" ammo bag, just for 10mm ammo. That ammo is "down-loaded" but, the down-loaded 10mm is more exciting than regular 45 ammo.

I really like shooting my S&W 629 (No brass hunting!!) so now, the Delta Gold Cup only gets shot occasionally.

I remember when I read that the Delta Gold Cup was selling used for $500,, and I thought "That was a pretty good purchase!!"

I have a mini 14 that does the same, except it throws it about 50 feet so fast that I couldn't tell at first which way the brass was flying.

 

[03hemi]

Since the gun was patterned off the CZ75, I don't see why anyone would buy it over a current 10mm CZ. I couldn't quite remember what they looked like and after doing a Google image search, frankly they look ugly. I don't see any market for a reproduction at all.

Keep in mind, CZ didn't have a 10mm at this time. That was the whole premise of "borrowing" the proven platform from the CZ.

 

[DWalt]

I'd appreciate an opinion on these. I picked up the Bren Ten Owner's Manual and Product Catalog at a SHOT Show in, I think, 1983 or 1984. The Peregrine flyer came later, but I don't remember when or where I got it. As I earlier mentioned, the Owner's Manual is about as complete treatise as one could imagine on a handgun, basically a gunsmithing guide. The catalog goes into great detail about the specifications of the full BT product line of different models. I am curious as to whether these might have any significant value. They have been in my library of gun ephemera for a long time.

 

[rosewood]

[QUOTE Not having been personally involved with the Bren Ten in days of yore, I have never understood the magazine availability problem. I gather that it was a large part of the BT's failure to thrive. Seems to me that magazine availability should have been no worse than a minimal problem, but such was evidently not the case. So what was the BT magazine difficulty all about?

This is the thing I've wondered about for the last 30 years. The magazine was the least complex part of the pistol. It's a matter of quite straightforward metalworking. Yes, they require careful attention to detail, but I've made replacements for unobtainable mags in the shop; it takes time doing a one-off, but it's certainly not advanced nuclear physics. I personally believe that the whole mag issue was a red herring to divert blame from the fact that a couple of greedy businessmen (what other kind is there) with an under-funded company foisted a good idea, that had not been properly engineered nor fully perfected, on an eager public in order to generate capital to keep their teetering operation afloat. This harkens back 35 years to Preston Tucker selling radios to the promised owners of non-existent cars, in order to keep the company going long enough to build said cars. Didn't work then, either. It would have cost them only a few thousand dollars at a time to produce small batches of mags and keep them trickling out in dribs and drabs, enough to convince the public that they might eventually get theirs, to keep the company alive. I think the real problem was that they didn't have the resources to fix the problems with the pistol itself, and the mags were just a cover.[/QUOTE]

Best explanation/hypothesis I have heard yet!

 

[rosewood]

Now I have a question no one has addressed. Was the Bren Ten ramped/fully supported or throated?

Rosewood

 

[Ethang]

I'd appreciate an opinion on these. I picked up the Bren Ten Owner's Manual and Product Catalog at a SHOT Show in, I think, 1983 or 1984. The Peregrine flyer came later, but I don't remember when or where I got it. As I earlier mentioned, the Owner's Manual is about as complete treatise as one could imagine on a handgun, basically a gunsmithing guide. The catalog goes into great detail about the specifications of the full BT product line of different models. I am curious as to whether these might have any significant value. They have been in my library of gun ephemera for a long time.

Sent you a PM

 

[BigMuddy]

I seem to remember an article on converting 1911 magazines to work in the Bren 10. Possibly in “Combat Handguns” but maybe it was American Handgunner. Involved welding plates to sides of the magazines so it would fit in the well. At the time my thought was.... if an existing magazine can be made to fit, why can’t a new one be made?

No idea if they worked or not.

I think the possible explanation from Krtlesfd makes a lot of sense. I feel confident in a newer version having magazines. When the Springfield Armory SA35 came out I thought.... what if?

Dan

Dan

 

[DWalt]

I wonder if the EAA Witness magazines will work in the BT?

"Now I have a question no one has addressed. Was the Bren Ten ramped/fully supported or throated?"

I do not know if the BT chamber fully supports the case, but I would bet it does. With a cartridge generating the chamber pressure of the 10mm, I can't imagine that the case would be unsupported. The EAA Witness has a ramped barrel and the case is fully supported.

 

[krtlesfd]

I wonder what the colonel thought about that?

I can tell you one thing he thought: I read a piece he penned in one of the publications of the day talking about how irritated he was about the casual manner that Sonny Crockett dumped empty mags on the ground. He said to the effect that Miami must be littered with empty Bren Ten mags, and that he was personally contacted by at least x number of owners who would go to extreme lengths to get their hands on one. He was not amused.

 

[DWalt]

The original BT had an adjustment feature that allowed the empty magazine to either fall free or protrude enough to manually pull it out. I don't know of any other semiauto that does that.

 

[Sevens]

With a cartridge generating the chamber pressure of the 10mm, I can't imagine that the case would be unsupported. The EAA Witness has a ramped barrel and the case is fully supported.

The Delta Elite doesn't.

 

[koz5614]

I bought my Bren Ten in 1997. It was the first pistol I bought when I graduated our police academy. I still have it, and shot it regularly for the first couple years I owned it. Mine is accurate and pleasant to shoot. Throughout the years I’ve amassed a stockpile of internal parts, grips & even a Special Forces Light (SFL) top end. It is one of the few pistols that I will pass down to my son. To me it was, and still is, the pinnacle of 1980s cool.

 

[Narragansett]

I liked the shoulder holster rig that Don Johnson had more than the gun

 

[Ethang]

I bought my Bren Ten in 1997. It was the first pistol I bought when I graduated our police academy. I still have it, and shot it regularly for the first couple years I owned it. Mine is accurate and pleasant to shoot. Throughout the years I’ve amassed a stockpile of internal parts, grips & even a Special Forces Light (SFL) top end. It is one of the few pistols that I will pass down to my son. To me it was, and still is, the pinnacle of 1980s cool.

Thank you for the input. You are one of very few who have posted with any actual experience with the Bren, most are rehashing what they have read or heard over the years.

That said, my initial post was about a specific question. Would you?

 

[fdover]

Bren Ten curse

I bought a Bren Ten in 9/85 for $530 with one mag. I shot one box of the Norma ammo and didn't shoot it again. I now have a Delta Elite. The comment about the brass going so far that it was not found is correct. And you better have glasses on as you could get one in the face. This was bought in Costa Mesa CA from a FFL operating from his home. I subsequently read that there were issues with cracks in the slide and also catastrophic incidents that I did not want to be part of. I entertained the idea of getting it looked at by a gunsmith and also but it needed a microscopic exam. Did not do it. The last time if was shot was sometime in 1986(?) It now sits in the vault waiting for the 2nd mag.

 

[ladder13]

And people say Glock's are ugly?[/QUOTE]

Yes, all 5 Generations.

 

[krtlesfd]

I liked the shoulder holster rig that Don Johnson had more than the gun

Genuine Galco. I read quite a write-up on the story of choosing the pistol and holster rig. Michael Mann was personally involved in that, rather than just letting the armourer handle it all. Something about him going to Galco personally to get it right.

 

[S&W Fan]

fd and koz, would you gentleman care to share photos of yours for those of us that remember the pistol fondly?

I've had similar experiences with cars and motorcycles from my more youthful days that even with their issues wish I still had

 

[koz5614]

Thank you for the input. You are one of very few who have posted with any actual experience with the Bren, most are rehashing what they have read or heard over the years.

That said, my initial post was about a specific question. Would you?

Yes! I was emailing VLTOR when they were oh-so-close to bringing the gun to fruition back in 2008 as the “Fortis”. I will be on the waiting list when somebody finally produces it. I’m not giving up hope - hell, they started producing the AutoMag again. I’ve got an original one of those as well, but won’t order a new one until they start making it in .357AMP.

S&W Fan - I’ll be happy to snap some pics & post them.

[/URL]

This is an old photo from the forum when Photobucket was still free. Sorry for the watermark. The grips are original Herretts. They made smooth and checkered. I’m still looking for the smooth variant, although I do have an original set of the “Jeff Cooper” presentation grips. Apparently, Hogue made a set of White Pebble-grained grips for the Bren, but I’ve never seen a pair.