I've been seriously considering getting an 1873 Colt knockoff. There are a few companies that seem to be popular. These include Cimarron, Pietta, Uberti, and I guess some others. Not looking to spend a fortune. Pietta has a model out that is 45 Colt and also comes with a 45acp cylinder. I'm not very familiar with any of these companies other than just having heard their names before. I'm actually leaning toward the Pietta convertible but mainly because of the acp cylinder (I also shoot 45acp). Only planning on using it just to have some fun with. Nothing serious. I've got a lot of S&W 357's and just want something a little different. My first thought was one of the Ruger clones but they do not seem to be a "workingman's gun" any more. Mostly out of the price range I'm considering. Any help or advice welcomed here. Only want to buy it once. Thanks

I'd look into getting a Heritage Arms Rough Rider, it's an incredibly cheap way to scratch the itch for a SAA.



Be clever, grin forever.

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

I have a .45 Colt Ruger Vaquero, which is pretty close to a SAA. I have no experience with the other foreign made clones.

I have heard a lot about The Rough Riders, but never handled one until last week at the gun show.

Let's just say that my itch has gone away. I think I'll stick with my Ruger until my finances can handle a "real" one, or maybe even an Uberti.

As a matter of fact, I do. The two main Italian manufacturers are Uberti and Pietta. Uberti used to be considered the slightly better made gun, but in recent years Pietta has stepped up its game, and is just as nice.

Both are imported by a number of firms, with Cimarron, EMF and Taylors & Company being most popular. Most are now imported with one of 3 safety systems - A longer base pin, a transfer bar, or a floating firing pin safety. 4 click guns usually use the longer base pin, and are getting hard to find. 3 click guns with the floating firing pin safety work well, and can be converted to 4 clicks if desired with a hammer / trigger replacement.

Other options are longer grip frame off an 1860 Colt Army, factory tuned and re-sprung actions, black powder or modern frame, and narrow V or wider square rear sight notch different grips, among others.

After looking at a few recently, I went with a Uberti "El Patron" (factory action job), "Grizzly Paw" (longer grip frame) model in .357 mag. Very slick action and light trigger pull. Very nicely finished, and the grip feels good in my big hands. Attached a quick pic of the new one with my USFA .44 spec / 44-40 convertible. Pic isn't great, but the Uberti is pretty close to the USFA in fit and finish, which is nice, especially considering the USFA is a 2K or more gun, the Uberti being about $650.00.

Larry

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I did SASS Cowboy action Shooting very seriously from 1996 to 2014. I own several SAA clones. The only guns that hold up to the quantity of ammo shot in events and practice are Ruger Vaqueros, and the Blackhawk family! I have 2 clones in 357 and 4 in 45 Colt. The Uberti's hold up much better than the Pieta's. There also was Armi San Marcos. I have 3 ASM's that are now only "Gun Shaped Junk!"

I currently own two pair of Vaqueros. A 5.5" blue Beisley pair since the early 90's and a 4" Stainless pair that I've owned since that I've had since 2010. All of these were bought used. The Beisley pair have over 80,000 rounds each through them without a serious problem. (The ejector shrouds are aluminum and wear badly, steel replacement that match are available all over!) My Stainless pair have just less than 10,000 rounds each, again with no down time!

My Italian clones in 45 Colt and 44-40 WCF have minor problems starting 1000 +/- rounds. and major parts problems at 8000 rounds. Which is when I get rid of them, but some people do complete rebuilds at that time. The guns in 357 last much longer because they only get 38 Special target loads and go about twice as far before problems.

The reason my round counts are so high is that my wife and I shoot, along with sons, daughter and In-Laws shoot my guns and ammo!

Just so you know, real Colt SAA's need rebuilt somewhere around 80,000 to 125,000 according to friends that use them. Again, that depends on how much recoil they are generating.

The exception to all this has been one of my 357's! It isn't an Italian, It is a Saur & Shon from the 1960s. Faithful in size and function to a Colt, but finish "challenged"! If you can find used Saur's, minor parts (like springs) are interchangeable with Colts!

You will enjoy any single action you buy! How long the enjoyment lasts on how mush you shoot, how powerful you shoot and, how hi the original quality is!

Ivan

I have quite a bit of experience with both Colts and clones. The 7.5" SAA in 44-40 is my favorite handgun of all time.

One note: Cimarron, Taylors, EMF, Traditions, (and probably others) are American companies that import these guns and stamp their name on them. Some of them will do things like action slicking and some have unique specs, etc. but the only companies that make the guns are Pietta and Uberti, both in the Gardone gunmaking region of Italy. All these companies import both makes and stamp their names on them, so you make have to ask what you're getting if you go to these resellers. You can also buy straight from Pietta or Uberti on sites like Gunbroker.

For me, a 4 click action is a must. For that reason, I would not buy an Uberti. I do have one 4 click Uberti made before they went to the transfer bar system and it's great, so it's a shame they went away from the traditional Colt action. If I wanted something that was not 100% authentic, I would buy a Ruger. They are great guns and probably better than either Pietta or Uberti, so there's no need to buy a "clone" if it's not really a clone...Again, in my opinion.

That leaves Pietta. They still make only authentic 4 clickers, thank goodness. They are quite good as well. Most parts on a Pietta are mirror images of the Colt SAA itself. They are the most authentic of the Italian clones. I highly recommend them.

The only wildcard is making sure they hit to the sights. Many do but some don't (just like real SAAs) . Parts are readily available and you can do pretty much everything yourself as these guns are simple, or if it's something difficult there are no shortages of people that work on them.

I've got a couple Piettas that I like so much that I sent them to Grashorn for stag grips. I shoot them more than my Colt's because obviously the replacement value is much less.

I'd also recommend black powder (at least sometime) for the full experience. That's why I like the 44/40 so much...it's a much better black powder round than the 45 Colt because it seals the chambers much better.

Good luck in your search and let us know how you make out!

I have the Uberti Cattleman in .357. Has a beautiful finish and a very nice action, but only the three clicks. Wish it had the proper four clicks, but at $450 purchased brand new a few years ago, it screams value.

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If I was in the market, I'd probably go with another Uberti. I had a .45 Colt, and I think it was called a cattleman or something, can't remember but it was 4 clicks and very reliable, good-looking brass with flat black cylinder and barrel. I put it up for consignment and it was sold before I got home. I thought Heritage was out of the .357 and .45 business, but I saw one of each brand new for about $400 each. I did have a .357 but the front sight was off; looking at the muzzle the sight was at about 11:58 o'clock. I gave that one to my son to mess around with. Other than the front sight, which is kinda important, the gun ran flawlessly. The 2 .22s I have are very reliable, although a little cheesy-lookin'. They both have .22 Mag cylinders with them. The Uberti was very sturdy as it was good looking.

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Waiting For The Sun.

I have a "4-click" Pietta: in 45 Colt & wish it had the 45 acp conversion as well...

You'll love it if you are looking for a true "clone".

A Ruger single action is a different level, IMHO. For hunting, "Ruger Only" loads, etc., they are very hard to beat!

Cheers!

Blackhawks are indestructible.

If you want to scratch the itch for a single action new manufacturer, a heritage or wrangler for $125-$200 will get you something you can play with while watching a western in the evening.

If you want something a little better made but still a .22lr, you can find a decent used Ruger Single Six for a few hundred more.

If you want something centerfire, options range from $500 to over $1k from Uberti, Pietta, Cimmeron, etc. As has been said, most are variations from the same two manufacturers, and of the two I personally would choose a traditional 4 click Pietta. I have no interest in any of the newer hammer-safety designs released by Uberti. Above this price point you start seeing diminishing returns for the money you spend. If you just want a quality shooter, there is no reason to spend more than a good Pietta is worth.

If you want to step up, you can find used colts starting at about $1400 and up, new colts for $2500 and if you want the absolute highest quality SA money can buy, find a late production USFA but be prepared to start approaching Colt SAA prices.

Little secret...a late model USFA will put not all but most "genuine" Colts to shame.

Standard MFG is another high quality SA, but their quality is hit or miss and they have been purported to use some imported parts.

OP:
Personally, (since you're asking for opinions) I'd sell a couple of those Smiths and pair the money with whatever other cash you've got and get something great:
2nd gen Colt SAA or USFA Premium.

Skip the Italian imports. THEY'RE JUNK!
The manufacturers don't even stand behind them.

Ruger? They're tough, they can be accurate. But, they handle like a mini-van.
They never get near the finesse of a real SAA.

Buy once, cry once!

Just my opinion....
YMMV

I certainly don't compete with it but I do enjoy my Ruger Blackhawk in 357/9mm. I also enjoy my Single Six in 22LR/Mag. I also have a Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag. I don't really enjoy that one much as the trigger guard just hammers the heck out of my middle knuckle. It would probably be fine with light loads, but then I have the Blackhawk for that.

Find yourself a Colt…….the same reason you collect Smiths versus a Taurus or Rossi is why.

I don’t think those 4 Colts are seeing much range time; I don’t even see a drag line on any of them!

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Terry Lester

You won't see a turn line on a properly working Colt SAA that has not had the hammer dropped from half cock. If you fully cock a SAA and lower the hammer the locking bolt does not contact until it is in the notch.



OP:

I agree with a couple of the others. Buy once, cry once. I found this 3rd gen .357 Colt for $1200 a few years back. Have never regretted buying it instead of a clone. Plus, I know I can get my money back if I have to sell it.

Nothing to add here except this great painting of a Cowgirl with SAA:

Back when I started down this slippery slope I was in Jr. High. I. Had a couple buddies older and they had bought Hawes SA 44mags. It took me a couple months to come up with the $59.95 plus tax to get mine. On the big day we went to the LGS to get my Hawes. In the case right next to Hawes was Ruger SBH. I immediately lost interest in Hawes. Make long story short my old man kicked in the difference and I got the Ruger SBH. Also another short story was how long it took for my two buddies to trade their Hawes on Ruger SBHs. ( This is 10yrs before Dirty Harry ) Ruger Blackhawk series was at the time about $85, SBH about $120. A Colt SAA was about $159.95.
Ruger came in 44mg and had adjustable sights. Was a no brainer if you actually wanted a gun to hunt or serious target.
I got clear away from Ruger when they did New Model. That didn’t matter much cause I was already on S&Ws and least thing I was interested in was fixed sight SAs. I had owned a few Colt SAAs in early 70s. Never kept them long before trading off. Now for some reason I got the itch for a SAA but had to be a Colt. It took awhile looking, couple years, but found a deal on a
Colt. I was looking for a Gen 2, 4.75” in 44sp or 45. Just plain jane model.
Ended up I got a NIB, 2nd Gen 5.5” 45. It also has some minor light pitting in 3 spots that were incurred during extended storage. It is also a WVa commemorative with gold plated grip frame and unfluted cylinder. But the price was what you would pay for top end clone.
Having said that, if Ruger was making 3screw vaquero it would be no brainer. Although I don’t buy NM Rugers they are still best SAs on the market. If it were me I would look for a Colt. You can play with it for free if you take care of it, maybe make a few bucks. The clones take a beating when on used market. I see one of those outfits is selling a SA that comes with a distressed finish. If I couldn’t kick out a Colt, I would go after Ruger.

My experience has taught me that the Italian clones are far from junk.
Not only have they allowed thousands of guys to experience an SAA that could not have afforded a Colt or USFA Premium, but all of mine ( 8 Ubertis and one Pietta ) have been free of any problems.

I did have 3rd Gen Colt (here flanked by a Uberti and a Pietta) but it had problems. Some 3rd Gens were fine, but mine was not.

This Uberti made Cimarron has been my all time favorite.
It was above par in every way, but the grips that were on it were fit so poorly I suspected the guy I bought it from had swapped them from another gun. I put on a set of Colt grips I had in my grip drawer.

One thing the guy had done to it was add a Bisley hammer, which I have really grown to like, a bit lower and wider, it is easier to thumb back.
And on a gun where every shot has to be thumbed back, might as well make it to your liking.

I've had several Rugers, and the smaller Flattops and New Vaqueros come closer to the Colt SAA feel but any Ruger still feels like a brick compared to the SAA.
Same with the top break design. These Uberti Schofields are unique and cool, but sure don't have the balance and liveliness of the Model P.
Sure would be easier to unload the S&W with one hand while galloping on a horse though !

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U. S. Army Veteran

‘I don’t think those 4 Colts are seeing much range time; I don’t even see a drag line on any of them!’

‘You won't see a turn line on a properly working Colt SAA that has not had the hammer dropped from half cock. If you fully cock a SAA and lower the hammer the locking bolt does not contact until it is in the notch.’

The nickel gun is new to me, I can’t say whether it has had much range time. But the others have, and as mentioned by JR, properly handled and tuned SAA should seldom turn a line on the cylinder.
One of the guns is in .44sp and sees range time right along with my 24’s and the .45lc comes along when I bring out my 25s.
The nickel will come along when I bring out my nickel 29…..but that one isn’t so popular with me.

I don't think of that "Art", I think that was intended as a "Pin-up Girl" for cowboy minded soldiers!

Still cute!

Ivan

The Italian guns are junk???

Tell that to the thousands of SASS shooters that use them, many times on every weekend.

When used that much they ALL will wear out parts....2 of mine were rebuilt around the 80-90,000 round mark. Gunsmith used real Colt parts on all of the internals. no fitting required on myearly Uberti 4 click.357's

Randy

"junk" hmm? I'd invite you to look at my 2nd gen Colt. You know, the ones that have the reputation of being the best of Colt's SAA.
See that piece of paper? Yea thats the gap between the grip frame and the main frame, and its big enough to see daylight through.
See how the hammer profile doesn't fit at all with the profile of the frame ears? Poor fitting and machining.
See all the gaps between the seams? Poorly fitted.
The hammer channel in the frame is rough as a cob, wasn't even remotely cleaned up before being nickeled.
The hammer has drag lines down both sides from contact with the frame.


Of Uberti, Pietta, Colt, and USFA's, the roughest and lowest quality SA i've ever seen had a prancing pony on it. When people say you pay for the Colt logo more than for the quality of the gun, in many cases they are right.

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Wow. I was only expecting to find 2 or 3 responses to my post. A lot of good information. To those recommending I go with Ruger, I looked there first. I had a Blackhawk back in the late 60's that I liked. I took a look at some of their options and was appalled by their prices. I always considered Ruger to be a working man's gun but their current prices have definitely taken them out of that category. I do like the looks of both the Cattleman and the Pietta Californian. Both are case colored frames and the rest blued. I'm putting my 19-3 up for sale to finance it. In the meantime I need to try to see some in person. That's one of the downsides to living in the sticks. You really have to travel to see anything.

Owning a bunch of each. For gun twirling there is nothing like a 7 1/2" 45 Caliber Colt!!! I've talked with two national champions, This gun has perfect ballance!

Otherwise Rugers handle more like a Pick-up than a Mini-van!

Ivan

I was also a dedicated cowboy action shooter for quite a few years. There were plenty of Italian SAA replicas being used with thousands of rounds fired through them so I would never classify them as junk.

However, according to John Taffin, on but inactive on this Forum, but still an active shooter and gun writer, ALL OF THESE GUNS ARE REPLICAS. A clone would have to be nearly indistinguishable from a genuine Colt SAA. Jus' sayin'.....

I used the old Vaqueros my own self. They're fabulous.



However, IMHO, the best looking revolver of the "Old West" period is the 1875 Remington and THAT is the single action revolver I would select as my "cowboy toy".

Today it is the Uberti "Outlaw".

https://guntoters.com/blog/wp-conten...aw_Blue_02.jpg

(c) Guntoters

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Come and take it!!

For me it is either a real Colt or a Ruger. You get what you pay for.

I own Pietta, EMF and Uberti…………although all 3 of them are acceptable……….Uberti is the best quality in my opinion!

That hasn't been true with either of those brands in a while. In terms of SAA it hasn't been true for about 60 years for Colt. Quality wise others have been eating Colts SAA lunch for a while now. Colt has gotten a lot better these last fifteen years or so and it is because they were getting their lunch money stolen by USFA who was putting out a far better gun for far less money. But at 4x the price of an Uberti a new Colt (if you can find one) is certainly not a 4x better gun.
Go on over to Coltforum and browse around if you don't think that some era's of Colt SAA's are recognized as being inferior in craftsmanship to even the modern italian replica's.

Ruger was a good value until more recently, but now that Ruger is pricing their plain jane gp100's within $50 of a S&W 627 pro and MORE than a 686, forget that.

Here is one of mine. An early import I purchased from Navy Arms in 1976 or so. I fitted new grips and the ACP cylinder several years later. I like the ACP so much, I have lost the other cylinder! And I really don’t care. Before I go to the range, I load up 10 or more 1911 magazines with 5 rounds of ACP and use those as “speedloaders”. They work great.



Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Does anyone remember the first SAA clone? It was used in many western movies and TV series of that time, and I haven’t seen one anywhere for at least 15 years. What was it?

Great Western?

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The best I can with what I got

Bingo. Bill Wilson was way ahead of his time.

What kind of coin was used for the front sight?

Check auctions…they’re often available for short cash but keep in mind all the premiums and fees involved. Last year in an auction I picked up an engraved NIB Pietta Great Western II .45 Colt, a NIB Taylor’s and Company Cattleman in .45 Colt and a New but no box Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special for $1115 total…out the door. I know that’s not the norm but it can happen if you’re patient and watch the auctions.

Yes, Great Western. From what I've read, GW single actions were either very, very good or kinda bad. I once owned a 5 1/2" .45 Colt with plastic stag handles. I got lucky and it was one of the good ones.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

The engraved revolvers John Wayne used in his last film “The Shootist” were Great Westerns that were presented to him by the company.

IF Uberti chose to mark their SAA revolvers as genuine Colts you, me, nor anyone would be able to tell the difference. THAT is how accurate is the "reproduction." Uberti makes excellent 1873 "pattern revolvers," and Cimarron is right there with them in terms of appearance and reliable function.

Heritage Arms makes Zinc-alloy, bargain basement .22LR SA revolvers not EVEN on the scale of the what Uberti and Cimarron produce.

I would have to dig it out to be sure but I believe it was an Indian Head penny.

The grips were fashioned from the densest piece of elk I have ever found. Picked that section up in a muzzleloading shop in Delaware, Ohio, Golden Age Arms. I originally bought it to make a knife handle. Never did. It was not thick enough to make one piece stocks so I cut it in half and fit a spacer.

I think it turned out nice.

(7 hrs later) I just looked, it is an 1889 Indian Head penny.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Speaking of SAs, does anyone remember Mossberg dabbling with them with their Abilene? I’ve only handled one back when I had my shop. I’ve read they were hit or miss on quality, but the one we had had, had the nicest finish I’d seen on a SA. Mirror smooth and a blueing that looked like black glass.
Looking back, we had a 4-5/8 Colt, blue and case hardened with scrimshawed real ivory grips in .44 spl. on consignment that languished in our display case for what seemed like forever. Everyone would drool over it until they saw it was a .44. They all wanted 45s. IIRC the owner wanted $475 for it. Oh to have a time machine.

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Who are those guys?

Since this has gone on for a few pages now, I'll add my $.02...

I really like a nice SAA, and have fun shooting them occasionally, though I'm never going to jump all the way into the Cowboy shooting sports. As much as I would like to have several Colts in the safe, the investment that would represent I would rather spend on other pursuits. Thousands of SASS shooters have proven the quality of the Italian reps over the last couple of decades, and they are entirely adequate to my use.

I own a pair of Pietta Cimarrons (I'm partial to the 4 clickers), with some custom leather. The entire investment in the pair, including the leather, and trigger work by Bob James, was less than a single Colt 3rd Gen would have cost. They're fancy, they're fun, and they shoot just fine, and that's all I need. One of these days, I'll likely add a 7 1/2" blue/CH "Cavalry" SAA.

I fully understand that others may be looking for something different in an SAA.

I see a lot of references to “4 clicks”.

Yes, I understand what they are but does anyone really count them when they are shooting?

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

No... at least I don't think so. But it's a characteristic of the original design, as opposed to a transfer bar or some other safety system, so it's a reference to that design.

I didn't catch that before. I don't have a SAA, but I have a few old model Rugers. They are 3 clicks. What are the 4 clicks?

The original Colt SAA (and the replicas thereof) click 4 times as the hammer is pulled to the fully cocked position. It doesn't have any specific meaning, it's just a characteristic of the design, therefore the replicas that are faithful copies of the original also click 4 times.

Some of the replicas have incorporated transfer bars or other 'safety' systems in their design, and no longer have the '4 clicks' of the original SAAs.

It's just one way that the different designs/mechanisms are identified.

Yup. The mossberg Abilenes were actually the tail end of the SA Abilene saga. Mine is one of the earlier ones and you aren't kidding about the bluing. Its a nice gun that people have compared to a Blackhawk, but in reality the Abilene is a far nicer handgun than a Ruger. They are usually pretty cheap when you can find them because they are relatively unknown. I think I paid $300 for mine. It's a beast of a handgun, a .357 built on a .44magnum size frame and cylinder

4 click spell COLT
Randy

Old Model Ruger SA's have the so called '4 clicks' just as the original Colt SAA does.
3 of them are the trigger tip dropping into the hammer cuts at 1/4, 1/2 and Full cock.
That extra is the cylinder bolt dropping onto the cylinder surface. That occures betw 1/2 and Full cock in hammer motion.

The Colt uses a cylinder bolt with an integral flat spring that works off of a small cam surface on the side of the hammer.
That cam lifts the bolt out of lockup with the cylinder as soon as the hammer begins it's backward cocking motion.
The arm that is the spring slips off of the cam at the correct (timing) point to then drop back in place. That's the 3rd 'click,,just before Full Cock (click).
Upon firing, the fact that the arm of the bolt is a spring, it can ride over the cam inside on the hammer and reset itself once again in place to be lifted out of lock-up when the hammer is pulled back again.

Ruger uses the same principle, but in true Ruger tech, the cylinder bolt has a solid arm that engages a plunger powered by a small dia coil spring on the right side of the hammer. Same idea. It pulls the bolt out of lock-up and then drops it as the hammer comes back to just the right point. Thats the Ruger 3rd click.

Both can wear. Both can usually use some clean-up from what the factory fitting provides for smoother operation.
Either can be out of time and drop the bolt too early or too late.
The Colt style is prone to breaking the integral spring arm and the cam on the hammer wears.
The cam is a replaceable part. Needs fitting in replacement.
The broken spring arm on the bolt being integral means a new bolt in the orig Colt design.
But made of good materials and good heat treat, Fitted correctly, maintained,,they seem to last for decades.

I've seen junk imports and I've seen junk Hartford Colts.

I inherited an EMF Dakota .45LC from Dad. He probably put 2, maybe 3 boxes of ammo through it, but mostly just liked to hold it while he watched Gunsmoke. It is a 4 click, no safeties revolver that shoots rather well. I am not sure about the quality of these EMFs, but someone mentioned all the Italian guns are junk. I'll likely hang onto it because it was Dad's.

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USMC RETIRED

I really like my pair of Uberti El Patron in .45Colt (4.75” & 5.5” barrels)

The only part I’m not fond of is the feed bill for ‘em

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