1915 mint Luger

SF VET · Sep 13, 2023

About 35+ years ago, my now deceased father in law and went to a gun show in Topeka, KS. He bought 3 Lugers for $1,100, one a perfect '44 BYF, for which I located a WWII era flap holster. I shot it a few times, and then he ended up selling it for a "profit" to a small town Pastor. That Man of God long ago came down with Alzheimers, and his widow still has that pistol. As far as i know.

The other two were all gold plated, shiny, all "bling", and I had no interest in a gold and shiny Luger, so never asked him about them. I didn't see them for decades. He died about 5 years ago, and my wife and I went back to help "clean out" his tools and stuff and his two remaining Lugers, and a few other firearms.

It was only then that after examinging this 1915 Luger, and doing a little research, realized it wasn't "gold" bling, but straw bluing, about which i knew nothing. The other early similar pistol was no where to be found, so he must had sold it in the intervening years.

So, here it is. It is perfect, not a mar or scratch, or handling mark. The grips are worn, and the mag has a wooden base, and I don't know anything about vintage Luger mags. I just oiled it, and ran a patch down the barrel, which came out spotless. I have not shot it nor intend to. I actually have given it to my son for his collection; I just occasionally bring his firearms over to my place to clean and oil them. I also have the WWII holster with the little tool for it. I also got his Belgian 243 BAR, which he shot all of three times, two to zero, the third for a deer. My brother in law got the Damascus double, a 30-06 Auto, and my father in law's prized LC Smith double.

I still hope to someday buy the BYF gun from the widow. About 15 years ago, I bought his '43 Springfield, pefect Garand.

The "bling" Luger. SF VET
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jeeps · Sep 13, 2023

Looks re-blued,finish should be dull rust blue.

AJ · Sep 13, 2023

Try these guys: Military Handgun Forum | Gunboards Forums

Blinged out shooter as it has been putz'd with and reblued. Will need close ups to get a better set of answers.

diyj98 · Sep 13, 2023

I agree. From the photo it looks reblued and polished or plated parts.

swagmeister · Sep 13, 2023

I agree with reblued opinions. Most of the collector value is unfortunately gone because of this.

mauser9 · Sep 13, 2023

Does look reblued but still worth some good money in this day and age of German milsurp weapons. Days of cheap are long gone

AJ · Sep 13, 2023

mauser9 said:
Does look reblued but still worth some good money in this day and age of German milsurp weapons. Days of cheap are long gone

It is a shooter grade. No collector value to it. May be worth more for the parts that are in it, as they are hard to come by if something breaks. Sad, but true.

Heinz · Sep 13, 2023

I would have to see many more pictures before I commented on value. A "shooter" Luger with all matching numbers in good operating order is going to bring 800 to 1000 dollars, so it is not something to scoff at

AJ · Sep 13, 2023

Heinz said:
I would have to see many more pictures before I commented on value. A "shooter" Luger with all matching numbers in good operating order is going to bring 800 to 1000 dollars, so it is not something to scoff at

Put it up on Gunbroker and see where it goes. Hopefully, two folks want it badly!

Heinz · Sep 13, 2023

I would NOT put a Luger on Gunbroker. There is way too much to check on a Luger to know what you have and I think GB Lugers get low prices, except when they are faked. I would use Simpsons LTD website as a reference and knock off 10 to 15% as they are a bit high but very reliable. They also take consignments.

Hard to tell much from the posted photo. Although my rule of thumb is that bad gun photos are often intentional. From the existing photo my guess it is badly over-buffed and then tank-blued instead of rust-blued. It does not show the military acceptance and proof marks on the receiver and the machining marks in the ears do not show. If the strawed parts look like gold plating they have also been monkied with. Still probably get 800 on GB

SF VET · Sep 14, 2023

appreciate the above comments. It does have a gorgeous blueing. As for military acceptance marks, did the manufacturer make commercial pistols? I could try a different camera, but the gun is so glossy that it is hard to get a picture of it. Someday i may do some searching on early Lugers. SF VET

AJ · Sep 14, 2023

SF VET said:
appreciate the above comments. It does have a gorgeous blueing. As for military acceptance marks, did the manufacturer make commercial pistols? I could try a different camera, but the gun is so glossy that it is hard to get a picture of it. Someday i may do some searching on early Lugers. SF VET

Germany was at war in 1915, so was probably a military gun. Take as clear as possible pictures and post them. Someone will be along to let you know what you have.

peterdeb · Sep 14, 2023

IMHO shooter grade Lugers are closer to $1800 - $2000 these days.

diyj98 · Sep 14, 2023

I know values can vary by area, but I sold an 80%, but all matching DWM 1917 with extra non matching magazine with reproduction holster for $1,500 last week and it was a slow sale. I sold an all matching except for magazine DWM for $1,200. Mismatched and/or refinished examples can be found a good bit cheaper.

cmansguns · Sep 14, 2023

Should not be a 44 byf either

I don't believe there ever was a 1944 byf Luger. byf was the code Germany used for the Mauser Werks in Oberndorf Germany. I used to collect Lugers and my old research reflects that the very last Luger produced by Mauser was serial number 9244, "i" block, and that was made in November 1942. By February 1942 Mauser Werks had already started conversion to the less expensive P-38.

The military marks you would be looking for are depicted in the pics below of my 1941 byf ("y" block= late 1941) "Black Widow" Luger that I sold some 5 years ago for $2,600.

Very good, friendly help on anything Luger can be had over on Jan Still's Axis Powers Forum. Those guys (and gals) are just like this Forum...the knowledge and assistance is tremendous (and free to boot)

Note that the straw bluing does not appear like gold plating at all. Another hint on Lugers (and maybe other guns as well...I don't know for positive) is to look for the "halo" around the top stampings....reblued guns will NOT have the halo.

SF VET · Sep 14, 2023

just watched a video about commercial early Lugers hosted by Legacy Collectables. Then sat with my Luger and tried to learn more about it. Mag has a wooden base, but no other markings. Really hardly any marks other serial numbers on all the parts. Has a small Eagle only just above the "hinge" on the front of the toggle part. Nothing else to speak of. The numbers are not buffed out, very crisp and clear, but sure looks like mine has a much more shiny and deep blueing than the ones in the video. No "halo" that I can see. As for the date on the war time pistol, I haven't seen it for 30 years, and only remember it was a war time date, may have been a '42 and not a '44. Thanks for the suggestions about sources for further information. Other than the mfg crest and the serial numbers, the ONLY marking is the above mentioned tiny eagle. I will see if I can find out more.

regardless of value, I don't plan on shootinng it, and wont sell it, as it is a connection to my deceased WWII hero father in law. He treated me like his ownn son. Miss him. SF VET

2152hq · Sep 15, 2023

SF VET said:
appreciate the above comments.

..... As for military acceptance marks, did the manufacturer make commercial pistols? ..... SF VET

DWM made 'Commercial' pistols. They were ser#'d in a separate range.
I don't believe the Commercial Lugers had the detachable butt stock rails on the backstrap,,but maybe some did.

The ser#'d parts on a Commercial sale gun are stamped in different locations than a Military contract pistol and on fewer parts than the Military guns.
The most noticeable (or not) would be the Side Plate ser#.
On a Military the ser# is boldly stamped on the outer face of the plate, can't miss it unless it's been purposely removed.
On a Commercial sale pistol, the side plate ser# is on the short flat area underneath by the trigger. You have to turn the pistol upside-down in hand to see it.

IIRC the only other German maker of the Luger in 1915 would have been their Erfurt Arsenal. A Govt Arsenal.
No Commercial Sale guns from there I don't think.
Most Erfurt Lugers have a distinctive small 'flat' cut into the top front edge of the receiver ring.
That small flat is for use when the pistol frame is made into an Artillery Luger (LP08). The adj rear sight sits down into that machined cut.
In 1914 I think it was, Erfurt started machining that small cut into all the frames as they were made not knowing if the frame would be used on a P08 or a LP08.
So the standard short bbl'd Lugers from Erfurt have the Artillery Luger rear sight cut on their frame as well from that date forward..

I don't see that cut on the frame of the pistol here. So I would guess it's at least a DWM P08 (Military) frame from 1915 (if that is what is stamped on the top of the ring.

With no ser#'s left on the small parts and Proofs, inspector marks etc gone (I assume) and then refinished as well, it can be very difficult to tell what is orig to the gun and what is not.

The Magazine is a WW1 or Inter-War period magazine.
Normally the pistols ser# would be stamped on the bottom of the wooden base.
The Extra matching magazine for that pistol would also have the guns ser# stamped there along with a '+' to indicate it's the spare or extra mag.

The grips should be stamped inside with a/the pistols ser#.

They can be made all new looking again with work. It takes a lot of polishing to straighten things out and knowing what grit it correct and what direction of polish in what areas.
There are hand stamps available to re-mark whats missing or can be hand engraved back in position.
On WW1 lugers especially, many times the frame, toggle & breechblocks have to be annealed first before that can be accomplished as many are extremely hard. Erfurt's being the worse.
Slow Rust Blued finish for these older ones with proper parts being bright polished afterwards.
Certain small parts 'Straw' colored depending on the era of mfg.
Then the grips look out of place so they end up getting spiffed up too.

A lot of it is done to simply upgrade guns for resale, the buyer not knowing most of the time.

AJ · Sep 15, 2023

2152hq said:
DWM made 'Commercial' pistols. They were ser#'d in a separate range.
I don't believe the Commercial Lugers had the detachable butt stock rails on the backstrap,,but maybe some did.

The ser#'d parts on a Commercial sale gun are stamped in different locations than a Military contract pistol and on fewer parts than the Military guns.
The most noticeable (or not) would be the Side Plate ser#.
On a Military the ser# is boldly stamped on the outer face of the plate, can't miss it unless it's been purposely removed.
On a Commercial sale pistol, the side plate ser# is on the short flat area underneath by the trigger. You have to turn the pistol upside-down in hand to see it.

IIRC the only other German maker of the Luger in 1915 would have been their Erfurt Arsenal. A Govt Arsenal.
No Commercial Sale guns from there I don't think.
Most Erfurt Lugers have a distinctive small 'flat' cut into the top front edge of the receiver ring.
That small flat is for use when the pistol frame is made into an Artillery Luger (LP08). The adj rear sight sits down into that machined cut.
In 1914 I think it was, Erfurt started machining that small cut into all the frames as they were made not knowing if the frame would be used on a P08 or a LP08.
So the standard short bbl'd Lugers from Erfurt have the Artillery Luger rear sight cut on their frame as well from that date forward..

I don't see that cut on the frame of the pistol here. So I would guess it's at least a DWM P08 (Military) frame from 1915 (if that is what is stamped on the top of the ring.

With no ser#'s left on the small parts and Proofs, inspector marks etc gone (I assume) and then refinished as well, it can be very difficult to tell what is orig to the gun and what is not.

The Magazine is a WW1 or Inter-War period magazine.
Normally the pistols ser# would be stamped on the bottom of the wooden base.
The Extra matching magazine for that pistol would also have the guns ser# stamped there along with a '+' to indicate it's the spare or extra mag.

The grips should be stamped inside with a/the pistols ser#.

They can be made all new looking again with work. It takes a lot of polishing to straighten things out and knowing what grit it correct and what direction of polish in what areas.
There are hand stamps available to re-mark whats missing or can be hand engraved back in position.
On WW1 lugers especially, many times the frame, toggle & breechblocks have to be annealed first before that can be accomplished as many are extremely hard. Erfurt's being the worse.
Slow Rust Blued finish for these older ones with proper parts being bright polished afterwards.
Certain small parts 'Straw' colored depending on the era of mfg.
Then the grips look out of place so they end up getting spiffed up too.

A lot of it is done to simply upgrade guns for resale, the buyer not knowing most of the time.

See, I figured someone would come along that knew more than the rest of us combined!

SF VET · Sep 18, 2023

Thanks to 2152 and others above. Here, a few slightly better pics, on some the reflection makes it look like some of the pistol is matte, but it all highly polished and blued from long ago with some of my light oil shining here and there. I doubt I will ever know much about my Luger, but it is a nice pistol non the less. Thanks, SF VET

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murphydog · Sep 18, 2023

Cool gun and a great family story!

Often, the wear on associated parts of a gun (like the stocks, if original) are a clue to a possible refinish.

Personally, I would see no problem with replacing the century-plus old springs and firing off a few rounds from it. Your father-in-law might approve.

1915 mint Luger

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