Let's Have a Great Western Arms Thread!...I'll Start

[bill-in-texas]

I've only known about Great Western Arms Co. for about 8 or 9 years following my first GWACo. find, a 4 3/4" Frontier model in .38 Special from 1957.

I recently acquired two more Frontier models. This time, they have 5 1/2" bbls. and are roll-marked .38 Special (ca. 1960 DIY Kit Gun) and .357 Magnum, (circa 1961) although both will chamber the .357 Magnum round. This has been encountered a number of times with Great Westerns bearing the .38 Special roll-mark.

All three are in very nice condition, with similar finish and grips.

Now, let's see yours!

-Bill

[CH4]

Edit:
Never heard of “Great” Western Arms. Thought this was going to be a thread about single action guns of the west. Guess I won’t post pics of my Ruger BH in 45 Colt.

Nice looking pieces, however.

[Alpo]

Not Western, Great Western. When all the western movies and TV shows were around in the 50s, people wanted Single Action Armies. But Colt had discontinued them. Here comes Great Western making guns that looks like Colt Single Action Armies.


All through Gunsmoke, Marshall Matt Dillon carried a Great Western. John Wayne's last movie - The Shootist - Books carried Great Westerns.

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Not Western, Great Western...

Great Western Arms Company, formerly of Los Angeles, CA.
Not to be confused with Great Western II, from W. Germany, IIRC. (None of those, please.)

They are stout, beautiful, well-made single action revolvers. As mentioned above, many of Hollywood's biggest stars used Great Westerns in television and movies of the 1950s and '60s.

-Bill

[turnerriver]

From a 1954 Hy Hunter catalog which stated “ At the present time the Great Western Arms Co. is producing these beautiful Frontier Revolvers for me exclusively.”
The second page explains my interest in the catalog- the Berns-Martin holster connection .


Regards,

[DWalt]

The first edition of Guns magazine (1/1955) had a cased pair of GW revolvers as its cover picture. https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/...8/12/G0155.pdf
They were used as props in many western movies and TV shows. I have seen only a very few of them over the years, none recently.

[Papa Lee]

I have a couple of old GW in .22 Caliber. Makes for a real heavy gun. The plastic stag grips that came on them broke too easily and so I fitted a set of faux ivory Ruger BH grips to them.

[6string]

Great Western filled an important role in making a SAA when Colt was no longer interested. But, keep in mind Great Western turned out a lot of lemons. Also, they sold unfinished kits that were often badly completed by various amateurs.

Elmer Keith was one of the first to write about Great Western. On the first ones, he reported they were "very poorly timed, fitted, and showed a total lack of final inspection. The hand was a trifle short, the bolt spring did not have enough bend to lock the bolt with any certainty, the mainspring was twice as strong as necessary and the trigger pull about three times as heavy as needed."

Later, after more communications with the factory:
"We are happy to report that Great Western has really gotten on the ball and is now cooking on all four burners. They overhauled their design and inspection departments, put in some gunsmiths who knew the score and are now turning out first-class single action copies. We have one in 4 3/4” .44 Special and it is a very fine single action in every way, perfectly timed, sighted, and very accurate. It has performed perfectly with factory loads and our heavy handloads and is very accurate at extreme ranges, the real test of any sixgun."

Also, the brand name "Great Western" was revived a few years ago, for use on an imported SAA clone, just to make things a bit more confusing.

In any case, caveat emptor!

PS: If you watch 1950s westerns (TV shows or films) you can spot a Great Western SAA by it's lack of a firing pin on the hammer, as would be found on a genuine Colt.

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by 6string

Great Western filled an important role in making a SAA when Colt was no longer interested…

PS: If you watch 1950s westerns (TV shows or films) you can spot a Great Western SAA by it's lack of a firing pin on the hammer, as would be found on a genuine Colt.

Great Western Arms occupies a pretty narrow collecting niche. John Wayne in “The Shootist” used a Great Western. James Arness, as Matt Dillon, carried a 7 1/2” model. The man Dillon guns down in the intro to Gunsmoke was the famous gun leather designer and quick draw artist Arvo Ojala (pronounced o-YA-la). He was originally from Finland, by the way. Not only were movie and TV Westerns the rage back in the ‘50s, ‘60s, & ‘70s, so was quick draw shooting and six gun tricks.
Have you ever seen footage of Sammy Davis Jr. handling a six gun? Amazing! Of course, Sammy carried a Colt.
It was in this environment that William Willis (Bill) Wilson saw an opportunity and started Great Western Arms -before Colt got back into the game, with only 8 Colt Gen IIs produced in 1955.

For me, it’s about the hunt. About a quarter produced were .22s, yet I’ve never seen one. All three that I have seen, I have bought, and all three are Frontiers. The one pictured in the center below, is a DIY Kit Gun, and may be exceptional in that it is a well-made example, as are my other two Frontiers.

-Bill

[s&wchad]

GW produced some really nice single actions. The OP's guns are lovely!

I had one of their .22's, but sold it about 10 years ago.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearm...=Great+western

[mauser9]

Great thread! Love those Colt SAA and the other copies. Big fan of Guns Of The Old West magazine recently. Interesting reviews and articles from the guns of that era.

[Dave686]

I had never heard of Great Western until I was trying to find an American Made 1873 other than a Colt.

I don’t usually buy foreign made guns, but when I wanted a couple of 1873’s, I couldn’t justify the cost of Colts. I own a Uberti and a Pietta. I sure wish an American Company besides Colt made these.

Those are beautiful revolvers Bill.

[Ruger 1,3]

My dad used buy the unglued/unfinished kits back in the early 60’s…….i wish I still had a few of them!

[Ruger 1,3]

Sorry……unblued not unglued!

[Goony]

Originally Posted by bill-in-texas

Not only were movie and TV Westerns the rage back in the ‘50s, ‘60s, & ‘70s, so was quick draw shooting and six gun tricks. Have you ever seen footage of Sammy Davis Jr. handling a six gun? Amazing! Of course, Sammy carried a Colt.

YouTube

YouTube

For other Hollywood stars adept at gun handling, see: https://truewestmagazine.com/article...-in-hollywood/

[Capt. F.]

Ok, I’ll play.
Here’s my GW 4 3/4” barrel in that coveted caliber - .44 Special.
Picked it up from an ad in a local swap rag. $300.
Mechanically perfect but very little case color left and no bluing except the hammer, trigger and ejector rod housing. Those look like new (obviously replacements?).
Good shooter though.

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by Ruger 1,3

Sorry……unblued not unglued!

I don't know if all the kits came without the bluing, I think not, but the kit gun (seen at the top) has bluing loss on the ERH.
Possibly, because the bluing was poorly applied.

-Bill

Woo hoo!... Finding Two at a Time!

[Gamecock]

.357 Atomic (!)

Anybody have load data for it? Anybody ever heard of it?

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by Capt. F.

Ok, I’ll play.
Here’s my GW 4 3/4” barrel in that coveted caliber - .44 Special.
Picked it up from an ad in a local swap rag. $300.
Mechanically perfect but very little case color left and no bluing except the hammer, trigger and ejector rod housing. Those look like new (obviously replacements?).
Good shooter though.

That’s a great score! I can imagine that .44 Special may have been one of the very few, or only one, in Maine!

-Bill

[Valmet]

IIRC some of the old-time Western actors had stock/invested in Great Western. Never owned one but would love to someday.

[Checkman]

"357 Atomic (!)

Anybody have load data for it? Anybody ever heard of it?"

Depending on one's source the 357 Atomic was simply a very hotloaded .357 Magnum cartridge and sold by Great Western. Other sources say the Atomic cartridge was 1/8 inch longer than the standard .357 Magnum cartridge, but nobody seems to have one of those cartridges in their possession. Whatever the case the Atomic was marketed for about a year and then the 44 Magnum was released and it was pushed to the side.  

[kennethg]

I got this one in a trade pre 1958 when I was in Jr High school. It had the plastic grips on it when I got it but they were already cracked. The grips on it now had been on a GW 22. As shown in one of the photos, it is chambered in 44 MAG. I did shoot some magnum rounds back then but would not do that now.

[Dave686]

Originally Posted by Checkman

"357 Atomic (!)

Anybody have load data for it? Anybody ever heard of it?"

Depending on one's source the 357 Atomic was simply a very hotloaded .357 Magnum cartridge and sold by Great Western. Other sources say the Atomic cartridge was 1/8 inch longer than the standard .357 Magnum cartridge, but nobody seems to have one of those cartridges in their possession. Whatever the case the Atomic was marketed for about a year and then the 44 Magnum was released and it was pushed to the side.  

MYSTICAL, MYTHICAL, MYSTERIOUS MAGNUM: 357 ATOMIC
Mystical, Mythical, Mysterious Magnum: 357 Atomic - American Handgunner

[Model19man]

Originally Posted by Alpo

All through Gunsmoke, Marshall Matt Dillon carried a Great Western.

Actually that is a popular myth. More here:


"GUNSMOKE" The Guns of Matt Dillon! - YouTube

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by bill-in-texas

Great Western Arms occupies a pretty narrow collecting niche. John Wayne in “The Shootist” used a Great Western. James Arness, as Matt Dillon, carried a 7 1/2” model. The man Dillon guns down in the intro to Gunsmoke was the famous gun leather designer and quick draw artist Arvo Ojala (pronounced o-YA-la). He was originally from Finland, by the way. Not only were movie and TV Westerns the rage back in the ‘50s, ‘60s, & ‘70s, so was quick draw shooting and six gun tricks.
Have you ever seen footage of Sammy Davis Jr. handling a six gun? Amazing! Of course, Sammy carried a Colt.
It was in this environment that William Willis (Bill) Wilson saw an opportunity and started Great Western Arms -before Colt got back into the game, with only 8 Colt Gen IIs produced in 1955.

For me, it’s about the hunt. About a quarter produced were .22s, yet I’ve never seen one. All three that I have seen, I have bought, and all three are Frontiers. The one pictured in the center below, is a DIY Kit Gun, and may be exceptional in that it is a well-made example, as are my other two Frontiers.

-Bill

IF.........You listen closely to opening scene.........Arvo shoots first...........

[Gamecock]

Thx for link, Dave686. Interesting info.

I found this notable:

"These revolvers have been tested with ammunition generating internal pressures of 52,000 lbs. per square inch without the slightest indication of failure.”

Back then, if the gun didn't blow up, the load was okay.

Now, we realize over pressure loads will stretch the frame. The gun won't blow up, but it will be rendered useless. I.e., over pressure loads aren't just about safety.

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

$84.50 in 1954 is about $974.09 today.
Charlie Askins wrote he fired a GW .357 Atomic. Said when the cylinder pin went over his shoulder he stopped shooting it.

[ISCS Yoda]

Some thoughts:

James Arness, as Matt Dillon, carried a 7 1/2” model. The man Dillon guns down in the intro to Gunsmoke was the famous gun leather designer and quick draw artist Arvo Ojala (pronounced o-YA-la). He was originally from Finland, by the way.

As evidenced above, James Arness/Matt Dillon carried guns other than a Great Western. I do believe, however, that the gun that Marshal Dillon uses in the opening scene of "Gunsmoke" is a Great Western. I never heard any rumors about him carrying only Great Westerns but quite some years ago in "American Handgunner", I think, none other than John Taffin IIRC wrote that the opening scene gun was a Great Western. I recall looking it up way back when.

Have you ever seen footage of Sammy Davis Jr. handling a six gun? Amazing! Of course, Sammy carried a Colt.

As noted in the video above, Sammy Davis was well known for his quick draw skills, as was Jerry Lewis. It was crooner Mel Torme, another fast draw artist, who, in a discussion about quick-draw, described Sammy Davis, and maybe Jerry Lewis, too, as "kind of sudden", meaning amazingly fast.

IF.........You listen closely to opening scene.........Arvo shoots first..........

Actually, you don't have to listen too closely, it's pretty obvious. Understanding that it's Hollywood and instead of being critical of it I decided years ago that it was deliberate, that the bad guy had to shoot first but the good guy had to win. That was always my fantasy in that respect.

[CH4]

Western arms…

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by BLACKHAWKNJ

$84.50 in 1954 is about $974.09 today.
Charlie Askins wrote he fired a GW .357 Atomic. Said when the cylinder pin went over his shoulder he stopped shooting it.

In the excellent article shared above, I noticed Mr. Taffin's 7 1/2" .357 Atomic has a Belt Mountain base pin.
Now, I understand why. Heh heh heh.

-Bill

[Mike, SC Hunter]

At one time Mel Torme had the largest collection of Colts and single actions in the USA.

[Capt. F.]

Originally Posted by bill-in-texas

That’s a great score! I can imagine that .44 Special may have been one of the very few, or only one, in Maine!

-Bill

First off Bill, thank you for your service.
There is a gentleman that occasionally runs an ad in the same swap rag looking for GW’s in any caliber.
I’ve never contacted him since I have no plans to sell mine, but it might be worth a call to see what he has.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda

Some thoughts:



As evidenced above, James Arness/Matt Dillon carried guns other than a Great Western. I do believe, however, that the gun that Marshal Dillon uses in the opening scene of "Gunsmoke" is a Great Western. I never heard any rumors about him carrying only Great Westerns but quite some years ago in "American Handgunner", I think, none other than John Taffin IIRC wrote that the opening scene gun was a Great Western. I recall looking it up way back when.



As noted in the video above, Sammy Davis was well known for his quick draw skills, as was Jerry Lewis. It was crooner Mel Torme, another fast draw artist, who, in a discussion about quick-draw, described Sammy Davis, and maybe Jerry Lewis, too, as "kind of sudden", meaning amazingly fast.



Actually, you don't have to listen too closely, it's pretty obvious. Understanding that it's Hollywood and instead of being critical of it I decided years ago that it was deliberate, that the bad guy had to shoot first but the good guy had to win. That was always my fantasy in that respect.

I know it's hollywieird......But if real, Dillon would have been dead. Nobody back then could beat Arvo.......Thell Reed was close. Also Bob Munden.

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Gamecock

.357 Atomic (!)

Anybody have load data for it? Anybody ever heard of it?

This is about as complete a discussion of the .357 Atomic you will ever find. Some of the responses in it are mine. It is basically a .357 +P+. Maybe using a lighter weight bullet. Likely never factory loaded.
357 Atomic Ctg - General Ammunition Discussion - International Ammunition Association Web Forum

[Goony]

Appearing in the May 1955 issue of Guns magazine was a highly detailed article on the Great Western operation. Assessment of the quality of the earliest production was not laudatory, but improvement in this regard was noted. The .357 Atomic cartridge was also discussed. The article begins on page 18: https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/...8/12/G0555.pdf

[antiques24]

Great Western with a Colt barrel & cylinder. Universal Pictures Studios.

[PALADIN85020]

This Great Western I'm holding was used by John Wayne in many of his movies.

John

[Goony]

Originally Posted by antiques24

Great Western with a Colt barrel & cylinder. Universal Pictures Studios.

Am I correctly reading "Audie Murphy" also inscribed on that backstrap?

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Goony

Appearing in the May 1955 issue of Guns magazine was a highly detailed article on the Great Western operation. Assessment of the quality of the earliest production was not laudatory, but improvement in this regard was noted. The .357 Atomic cartridge was also discussed. The article begins on page 18: https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/...8/12/G0555.pdf

Except it seems no one has so far claimed to have seen a .357 Atomic cartridge, at least a cartridge headstamped as such, or a factory labeled ammunition box. There may have been some overcharged experimental loads made up by Hy Hunter using standard .357 Magnum cases, but none of the commercial ammunition makers of that period loaded and sold it. Assuming that the .357 Atomic cases were longer than standard .357 Magnum cases, as was suggested, who would have made them? Certainly none of the large ammunition loaders. They wouldn't have bothered without an order for a million or so cases paid for in advance.

[Wyatt Burp]

Originally Posted by Goony

Sammy Davis Jr 60th Anniversary 1990 - YouTube

Curator's Corner: Sammy Davis, Jr.'s Colt Single Action Army Revolver - YouTube

For other Hollywood stars adept at gun handling, see: https://truewestmagazine.com/article...-in-hollywood/

If you look close you can see his 7 1/2” Colt in his spinning routine is a 1961 125th Anniversary Commemorative .45. If brand new that would be the year this was filmed. I own my dad’s .44 Special GW and also a chromed .22, both 5 1/2”. I was told by the boss at GW forum that the “O” at the start of the serial number meant it was originally a kit gun someone bought then put together. Including the horrible finish which is strangely considered original, I guess.

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by antiques24

Great Western with a Colt barrel & cylinder. Universal Pictures Studios.

Originally Posted by Goony

Am I correctly reading "Audie Murphy" also inscribed on that backstrap?

I also read "Audie Murphy" on your Great Western.

Please tell us more.

-Bill

[Goony]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

At one time Mel Torme had the largest collection of Colts and single actions in the USA.

In the October 1970 issue of Guns magazine, an article starting on page 26 is of interest in this regard: https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/...0/11/G1070.pdf

[jasongt06]

My Great Western 357 Atomic Single Action

[bill-in-texas]

Originally Posted by jasongt06

My Great Western 357 Atomic Single Action

Interesting.

Is the hammer on the safety notch?
The trigger is too far forward for the hammer to be fully "dropped."

Please post a clear picture of the GREAT WESTERN ARMS roll stamp on top of the barrel. -Thx.

-Bill

[jasongt06]

There you go




QUOTE=bill-in-texas;141870492]Interesting.

Is the hammer on the safety notch?
The trigger is too far forward for the hammer to be fully "dropped."

Please post a clear picture of the GREAT WESTERN ARMS roll stamp on top of the barrel. -Thx.

-Bill[/QUOTE]

[Goony]

In the July 1956 issue of Guns magazine appeared a profile of Arvo Ojala. The gun he's wielding in some of the accompanying photographs may be a Great Western. The article begins on page 24: https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/...8/12/G0756.pdf

[Goony]

My first Great Western, found in a pawn shop today. It exhibits obvious holster wear, but is mechanically solid. The frame of this example is casehardened. A lot of extra steel in the barrel and cylinder, so a real boat anchor of a .22 for sure.

[jimmyj]

In the early 960s I had a Great Western S.A .22.
Also later in the 1960s "Dakota" S.A. were popular. My friend had one in .45 Colt caliber.

[larryofcc]

Originally Posted by Valmet

IIRC some of the old-time Western actors had stock/invested in Great Western. Never owned one but would love to someday.

The great Audie Murphy was a major stockholder.
I have a nice 5 1/2" .45 Colt, hanging on the door of my safe.
Bought it and a tooled leather holster and belt from a friend for $100. The faux plastic stock is cracked. Good shooter. Big Larry

[Goony]

Would anybody like to opine on why this example ought to have commanded the sort of price it did? Sold last year: Great Western Arms Co. Single Action Army Revolver | Rock Island Auction