Cast vs Jacketed bullets on Whitetails?

[Smokin' Iron]

My whitetail 44 mag. ammo inventory is getting a little low. In the past for hunting ammo I always used factory ammo. Because I prefer to shoot lower powered reloads for pleasure, it was easier just to buy a box or two of the hot stuff. But now with the price and availability of factory good hunting ammo, reloading makes more sense than ever.

Cast vs jacketed seems to turn into a Ford vs Chevy debate at times. Is it better to use a 250 grn. Keith style bullet and get maximum penetration or a 240 grn. JHP/JSP and hope for expansion and more energy transfer into the deer? The pistol I plan on using this year is a 6 " barreled 629 Classic, so my load can't be too hot. The deer around here can run pretty sizable, with good bucks running well into the mid 250 pound range, and 300 pounds is not all uncommon.

I have both style bullets available and a selection of powder. So what do you think???

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I've used both and yes it's a ford vs Chevy thing.For deer sized game,I've gravitated towards jacketed 240 SPs driven to max velocity.You will find that many who frequent this forum prefer heavy cast at lower velocity.I won't debate with anyone about it.They each have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Welcome to the forum!

I like the Keith bullet very much, and it's really hard to go wrong with a cast bullet, but for whitetails (even big ones) I prefer the expanding bullets. Energy doesn't kill an animal, so I don't worry about that anymore, (though I admit I used to), A hole through the vitals kills, plain and simple. The expanding bullet just makes a bigger hole in those vitals, causing a quicker death. I will only use an expanding bullet that will hold together on big deer/pigs, etc. though, like the XTP's or Nosler partitions or Speer plated bullets. Whatever you use, shot placement is the most important thing. Enjoy your hunt!

 

[Littledragon777]

I have shot 2 does this year with Hornady 240 grain XTP bullets that not only penatrated great but left their lungs a mess. I am shooting them in my 9 1/2" SuperRedhawk.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I cast H&G #503 250gr Keith's but........

there will be 5 Marlin rifles in the fields here in Indiana this year with 44Mag 240gr JSP/JHP bullets that I have loaded.

The main reason though is firearm. I have had a "Dicken's" of a time getting these Marlin 1894 rifles to shoot my lead bullets accurately enough out to 100 yards with my cast bullets. Of course, I am trying to get all the velocity out of them that I can, 1800fps or so. Not fortunate enough at this point to get an accurate load though.

The JSP/JHP bullets are either bulk Remington, Winchester or boxed Speer bullets. All will shoot "minute of clay pigeon" at 100 yards.

Someone suggested using a different measurement for accuracy to me today, checkers. The range gets shorter, 50 yards and he uses open sights but he shoots "minute of checkers" at that range!

The through and through of the Keith is a plus from a handgun. 2 holes bleeding from a nice square shoulder on one of those is a good thing, provided they are place in the boiler room. That's the part that is up to you though. If you hit them in the hoof, it doesn't matter what bullet you use!

 

[sonny]

I have used Speer 225 HP and 240 gr solids. With the HP's, I have destroyed a lot of meat, using a 44 Special, even when shot at greater than 50 yards. With non-expanding bullet, it is just a large punch-press, and a lung shot "should" bring the deer down from blood loss in about 50-100 yards with minimal blood-shot damage to good meat. My butcher yelled at me a lot.
I will bow to superior experience, however, and perhaps the HP devotees have much more time in the field.
Sonny

 

[sixshot]

I've taken a lot of big game with revolvers using cast slugs, never had a problem, ever. The main reason I like them is, there's no bad angles with cast, you will get penetration from end to end on white tails & even bigger game. Took 11 animals last year all with cast, had to shoot my bear twice, he was wiggling a little bit, he was done for but you don't take chances.
Having said all this, if I were an eastern white tail hunter I would most likely use a nice, soft jacketed slug for a little more shock. Most eastern hunters use a treestand & the deer is, for the most part unalarmed & you can wait for a classic broadside shot, out here in the west thats almost unheard of, so I want penetration & 2 holes. I don't like hard cast slugs, I want them as soft as I can get away with & still have good accuracy.
One of 6 hogs taken with an OM Ruger 41 magnum & 230 gr Keith.

Badger, taken 3 days ago, Lipsey's 44 special & 250 gr Keith.

Late season cow elk, Ruger OM 45, 260 gr Keith.

My best bear (6' 9") spring of 08, Ruger 10" 44 magnum, 250 gr Keith.

Bull moose, 4 years ago, Ruger SRH 480, 370 gr. softnose cast, all of these were 1 shot kills with complete penetration.

Dick

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Had a bad experience with a hollow point .44 mag with my first whitetail kill, switched to a hard cast 240 SWC at around 1200 fps and have been useing it ever since. Big hole in, big hole out, every time does the trick. As previously mentioned shot placement is important.

 

[Smokin' Iron]

Thanks for the replies. Since most of my shots are close (35 yards or less) I'll try some 240 grn. XTP's to start. I really like shooting cast, but the idea of a larger wound channel and heavier blood trail sounds appealing.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Different experiences affect choices.For what it's worth,the Hornady 240 gr XTP is an excellent bullet.Use it with confidence.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Sixshot-
Welcome to the forum!
Nice entrance too! There ain't no denying what a good cast bullet can do, and you are right about eastern deer hunting conditions.

The main reason I like the XTP is because where I have been deer hunting the last several years, we have to hunt near (like 50 yards and less) the neighboring property, and we need the deer to be down as fast as absolutely possible to keep them on our side of the drainage ditch. The neighbors have poached deer off our side, and we called them on it. Now things are strained relations wise.
If I hunted out where you are, my guns would be loaded with a cast bullet 95% of the time.

Nice collection of animals.

 

[sixshot]

I think your choice of the XTP is an excellent one under the conditions you describe, another great 44 jacketed slug is the 270 gr Speer Gold Dot, used it on a cow elk about 5 years ago out of a SRH, worked great, with good penetration.

This is a 3X2 buck taken in 2007, 357 Maximum & 173 gr Keith, 108 yds, one shot.

Mountain Lion, taken at 5 ft, 357 magnum, 173 gr Keith, one shot.

Wyoming fork horn buck 2008, Ruger 41 magnum, 230 gr Keith, he was facing me staight on at about 80 yds, shot went through the center chest & exited in front of right hind quarter, ran 40 yds, maybe 5 seconds!

One of 2 doe's taken in Montana last year, Ruger 41 Bisley, 230 gr Keith, first one at 15 yds, & I got extremely lucky on the second, it was running at about 85 yds, one shot, down & out.

This is the second doe, the one that was running, for certain it was a lucky shot.

Dick



Dick

 

[Rule3]

Sixshot,

Great pictures. I see on the Mt Lion pic it says 5 ft!

How did you manage or get into that??

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Dick,
Thanks for the pictures! I love it when someone posts what they have taken using the stuff that we all talk about here. Until recently, I didn't even have a digital camera, and I have no pictures that I can post right now. Maybe if I get into the 21 century and buy a scanner or something I can post too. I see that you have, or had the .480 SRH. Do you still? What do you think of it? I wish Ruger had made a 5 hole SBH instead. I think they would have sold like hotcakes. I know a lot of guys that would buy one. Are you listening Ruger?

What was the load you used in that SRH? You mentioned a soft cast 370? Your own, or what?


If you hit that running deer, there may have been some luck, but I'm sure there was a fair amount of skill involved too.

I like the bear track/deer hoove on your leather. It represents what it holds is for now don't it? Kinda makes a statement.

 

[sixshot]

Yes the distance was 5 feet, I was up in the tree with the cat, wanted some really good close up pictures! My plan was to shoot it & then quickly give it a second shot double action..........well, I fired & that cat hit the ground before I could even blink, not very smart looking back. That was 38 years ago.

I still have that 480 SRH & like you I would love a single action 480, it would be superb! I make the softnose cast, they are quite easy to do & you can add more or less lead, depending on how much expansion you want/need. The game warden told me before checking it that we would find the bullet, I said we wouldn't, it went in one side & out the other just like always, but I did get great expansion.
A friend of mine shot his moose 2 years ago with one of my softnose cast slugs in his 41 Redhawk, it was a 230 gr Keith style, the moose was facing us at 68 yds, the shot entered the center chest, went through the diaphram, hitting the heart & one lung, exiting the diaphram & ended up somewhere back in the intestines, something like 5' of penetration.
The lucky shot was one of my most memorable shots in hunting, it was just pouring down rain, I was as soaked as I've ever been & then had to wade the Beaverhead River (Montana) & float the deer across. If you don't gut them they float quite well.
Back in my competition days I did a lot of shooting at moving targets, in 2005 I fired 54,000 rounds, the following year 32,000, in 06 I was ranked #1 nationally in "A" class revolver, I'm 65 now, the young guys can outrun me & my competition days are over.
The bear track on the Barranti holster is his Signature Series line of holsters, he's probably the premier holster maker in the US, you can check out his website, mine is serial #1.

This is the Northwest Hunter rig by Barranti

My buddies bull moose, taken with his 41 Redhawk & 230 gr softnose cast.

The bull didn't move 10 yds.

Dick

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Thanks for the updates Dick.
That is just plain cool.

Did you get the idea from Ross Seyfreid for the soft nose casts? I have several articles from him and a couple of others on how to do it with great results, and complete adherence of soft to hard lead.

You have some great pictures there.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Interesting holster.It's sort of a Tom Threepersons with an extension covering the trigger guard.Very good design.

For whatever it's worth,if I were hunting game of the elk/moose class with a handgun,I would also use a heavy cast bullet.With one exception where I had no choice,I've always used a rifle for such.I've killed several moose and bear and always with a rifle (with an exception with a bear).

You're a very good pistol shot.

 

[Charles]

Yes the distance was 5 feet, I was up in the tree with the cat, wanted some really good close up pictures!

Boy, those would be great to see!
Thanks for sharing all this!

 

[Bulzi]

Dick, are you adopting by any chance or needing a Caddy ? I've got lotsa lead too.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I'm hunting with my cast bullets this year. I see no real need for an expanding bullet for my purposes, and I know that even a relatively light load, such as my RCBS 44-250-K bullet at 1000 fps will completely penetrate our small Florida deer, no matter what angle shot I take.

Now, with my .357 Magnum and 358429, I'm much less likely to take a "Texas heart shot", but any broadside shot should still be fine. Either caliber, a shot to break the shoulders and another in the boiler room should yield plenty of meat, as long as I'm patient enough to wait for the shot and accurate enough to make it.