Dillon Help Please

[jrplourde]

I've loaded several rounds of several calibers and all goes fine but I'm having a real problem with the 45 ACP. With most head stamps but especially Federal, the neck re-size requires a significant force going in and can only extract it by slamming the handle with the palm of my hand very hard. And if that isn't strange enough repeatedly inserting the die/funnel into the same shell is repeatedly difficult. What the hay is happening?

I talked to Dillon about it and they sent another die. Same problem.

The die re-sizes the neck to .003 less than the diameter of a jacketed bullet. That's fine.

Just on the side, I am using older (early 1980's) RCBS dies for sizing, seating and crimping. The stuff will not fit the case gauge or the 625 chambers but is OK in the 1911. OAL is fine by Lyman as is the diameter at the case mouth. I think I am in for new dies.

What a frustration. Can't load for my new revolver.

NO LUCK WITH DILLON

Talked with Dillon today re the expander/funnel viewed on post #18. It would be the answer except it's a 10 yr old design and no longer available. They recommend polishing. What a bummer.

Bob

 

[Skip Sackett]

Resize a case, take it out of the press. Remove the insides for the powder die, the belling part.

By hand see how they go together. Act like you are trying to insert it into the sized case. It should enter at least to the end of the bevel, I would think. If it doesn't maybe the sizing die has a smaller than normal ring in it and the powder die has a larger than average size to it.

How much bell are you putting on your case? Can you take a picture?

 

[sonny]

A little bit of lube makes the world a lot better; whether they're carbide or not.
Sonny

 

[jrplourde]

Hi Skip, a sized case does go to the end of the bevel.

Belling is just visible. Not much. In fact I insert the die little by little and long before I reach the belling portion I'm needing to pound it out.

Repeated inserts into the same shell with the same problem is saying something. There is a clue there.

Bob

 

[gunsmith11]

what dillion press are you using ? Maybe use dillion dies

 

[jrplourde]

A little bit of lube makes the world a lot better; whether they're carbide or not.
Sonny

Thanks Sonny, lube on the out side I agree fully but the problem is inside the case.

bob

 

[jrplourde]

what dillion press are you using ? Maybe use dillion dies

I'm using a 550B and my RCBS dies are not working right. Maybe Dillon dies the way to go.
bob

 

[Paul105]

Midway had a sale on Speer .454 brass ($20/100 primed), so I bought 5 boxes. First one thru the Dillon hung up on the powder funnel. Turned out these cases had a sealent on the inside of the case mouth to enhance bullet pull. I ruined several cases before figuring this out.

I solved the problem by replacing the .45 powder funnel with a .44 powder funnel.

I've also run into this problem with new Starline Cases in several calibers. Once fired cases work fine.

I'd call Dillon first to make sure the .44 powder funnel isn't to long for the .45 ACP, if not, I'd give it a try -- Dillon offers individual caliber conversion parts:

Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders


Paul

 

[Skip Sackett]

Any scratches on the outside of the case? What does the case measure on the outside after sizing? What does the case measure after belling? Down where the belling isn't? What brand of cases? Are they all the same brand? What do the cases measure before sizing?

Without a "look see" it's going to be a bit hard to help. Pictures if you can.

 

[jt1]

Sounds like a lube issue to me. How are you lubing your cases?

John

 

[Bullseye Smith]

Sounds like a lube issue to me. How are you lubing your cases?

John

I agree, get rid of the rcbs stuff and order a set of dillion dies and stop the worry about it. Till then you can get a oil pad and grease the casr befor you size it.

 

[jrplourde]

I agree, get rid of the rcbs stuff and order a set of dillion dies and stop the worry about it. Till then you can get a oil pad and grease the casr befor you size it.

Sir, the problem is in the inside of the case, not the outside. Read the post more carefully.

Bob

 

[jrplourde]

Any scratches on the outside of the case? What does the case measure on the outside after sizing? What does the case measure after belling? Down where the belling isn't? What brand of cases? Are they all the same brand? What do the cases measure before sizing?

Without a "look see" it's going to be a bit hard to help. Pictures if you can.

Skip, my cases are a mixed bag but the Federals are the toughest. Where the process of neck expansion is usually effortless the Federal shell are tough even with the RCBS die.

There are no visible signs of scratches.

Measuring at the case mouth:
Before resize .472
After resize .468
After neck expansion below the bell .468 (I would have thought higher)
At the bell .482

These are the measurment of one shell not the average of several.

Repeated inserts of the die into the same shell with the same problem suggest the shell is not responding or springs back. My measurement of
.468 before and after expansion is saying the same thing.

Bob

 

[Skip Sackett]

OK, Bob, great information.

It would seem that the belling die is only doing work on that part of the case. It's not opening the "body" of the case as both of us were expecting.

Now, do this. Measure the length of the Federal cases versus the others in your supply. I am wondering if they are longer.

If it was a matter of thicker cases, the expander would be opening the "body" of the case. Since that isn't happening. It has to be the belling portion of the die.

Now, this is a Dillon Powder die right? The kind that operates the powder drop? I know you said you are using a 550 but some folks have been known not to use that part of the equipment for various reasons.

I think you dealt with that in an earlier post, but I just want to be sure.

Hang in there, we'll get this figured out!

 

[Emerson]

I'm very interested in seeing how this plays out. I've encountered a similar issue with my .44's and I'm using all Dillon dies. No problem with the .45 or .357 just the .44

 

[jrplourde]

OK, Bob, great information.

It would seem that the belling die is only doing work on that part of the case. It's not opening the "body" of the case as both of us were expecting.

Now, do this. Measure the length of the Federal cases versus the others in your supply. I am wondering if they are longer.

If it was a matter of thicker cases, the expander would be opening the "body" of the case. Since that isn't happening. It has to be the belling portion of the die.

Now, this is a Dillon Powder die right? The kind that operates the powder drop? I know you said you are using a 550 but some folks have been known not to use that part of the equipment for various reasons.

I think you dealt with that in an earlier post, but I just want to be sure.

Hang in there, we'll get this figured out!

Yes Skip, I'm using the Dillon expander/funnel die.

How in the world can the shell NOT expand?

As I noted above, I get sticking long before reaching the belling portion.

My cheap calipers (time for an upgrade) reads all shells to be .005 to .010 less than the Lyman "trim to length" of .895.

Just ran a few more through the Dillon and RCBS dies. There is a net expansion on both of .004 or so. This is going to require a large sample with determined ave. The earlier sample must be in error, don't know. But as I said before, repeated entries into the same shell with the same problem is saying something. I wish I knew what.

An earlier thread on the same subject suggested that a fine polish of the die did the trick.

Bob

 

[Dale53]

I believe most here do not understand the problem of the original poster.
The cases are hanging up on the "powder through" expanding die in the Dillon progressive press. Dirty case mouths will aggravate this. .45 ACP military cases are thicker than commercial cases and will aggravate this problem. A touch of wax type case lube across the case mouth will solve this. Lee's water based case lube in a tube works well and will not contaminate the powder/primer if used sparingly. You only need to lube an occasional case mouth.

The newer Dillon expander drop tubes use a ring to expand and this helps but does not eliminate this occasional problem. This is NOT limited to Dillon tools but can happen with any that use a "powder through" expander in a powder measure (common in progressives).

Use the least amount of wax that you can imagine (just a bit on your finger scraped across the case mouth) on an occasional case will fix this.

Do NOT use too much as you COULD contaminate the powder. You do NOT want nor need to "lubricate" the inside of the case mouth, you just want to reduce "drag". This will do that.

Dale53

 

[tdan]

Attached are a couple of pics of my Dillon 45ACP expander assembly removed from the die body. These should look familiar. In the second pic, a sized case is inserted up to the belling flare. If you cannot easily push your sized case by hand to this point, your case has been sized down too much. Are you sure that this RCBS sizing die is for 45ACP?

Sounds like the expander assembly is having to "re-size" these cases up, hence the extra effort you are experiencing. As to Federal cases being the most difficult............Are these nickel cases? I have always noticed a little extra effort with these cases. I'd also put a little less bell on those case mouths. I measured a few of mine, and they run about .477-.478. Bell them excessively, and you will have the case mouths dragging on the wall of the die body.

All of this said, I would not use anything but a carbide sizing die for 45ACP. The only info you provide is that these are RCBS dies from the 80's. If it is an old RCBS carbide die that has an issue, give RCBS a call. They stand behind their products.

 

[jt1]

Dale, his mind is firmly made up it's not a lube problem. When I asked how he was lubing his cases, it was not even worthy of a response.

I've encountered the same problem with cases being sticky on the powder funnel, and it seems to be worse with 45 ACP cases. Dumping the cleaned cases in a box, and giving them a couple of shots of RCBS Case Slick solved the problem. A slight application to the funnel, just what residue of case slick is left on your finger after wiping it off, speeded the process up a lot. When you spray the lube on the cases in a box, some of the inside mouths get some lube, and that small amount is all it takes. The Case Slick is good stuff, my favorite lube. If it makes enough difference in the neck tension to affect accuracy, I couldn't detect it at 45ACP accuracy levels.

John

 

[jrplourde]

Hi Dale, will keep the lube in mind.

Bob