Did he kill all those Germans?

35 years ago, my then girl friend's father shared a few things about his experiences in WWII. He joined the Army in 1942 (retired in 1962) becoming an NCO during the war. By the end of the war, he was a senior NCO. He was later commissioned a 2nd Lt. just before leaving post-war Europe to serve in Korea. He didn't talk much about Korea, but made one thing clear about his unit during WWII, Nazi SS need not apply for a positons as POWs. He noted (and without any regret whatsoever) that on one particular occasion they lined some SS up against a wall and let loose with a .30 MG. I seem to recall it being at the liberation of a concentration camp or POW camp.

Interestingly, my uncle who served with 3rd Army in Europe as a medic said similar things about the SS. He remarked that they were a bit cazy and just too hard to handle as POWs.

FWIW
 
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My father was in the Battle of the Bulge. He was in the 975th Engineering Batallion. His platoon was pulled out and sent up front to do night patrols to scout out the Germans.
After he and the others heard of Malmedy, he despised the Germans. And he was a second-generation German/American.
I doubt he would have executed, or allowed such a thing, to any prisoners they might have taken but he sure wouldn't have offered them a cigarette, like he saw some GIs do.
Interestingly, our last name is obviously German. Dad was told that he'd better not be taken prisoner, because the Germans were particularly hard on American GIs who had German ancestry. You were seen as a traitor to your race.
My mother was Belgian, and fought in the Belgian Resistance during the war. She was widowed at 26, when the Germans executed her husband. He had been a Belgian Resistance leader, betrayed by another, and thrown into Breendonk torture camp south of Brussels. He was executed two weeks before D-Day.
Mom was twice imprisoned by the Gestapo, at St. Gilles Prison in Brussels, for her activities.
She had more reason to hate the Germans, but Dad hated them more. He refused to enter that country when they visited Belgian relatives.
Mom was more forgiving toward the average German soldier, but really hated the SS and Gestapo.

Did Lt. Speirs kill all those Germans? Only he knows, and he's not talking on this side. But if he did, I'm sure it bothered him later. I've known a lot of combat veterans, and they later found it hard to reckon some of the things they did as young men.
Young men generally haven't acquired the conscience and compassion of those older. And besides, they were trained to kill or be killed themselves. Quite the motivation.
I can see it happening, especially in Normandy where many got their first exposure to war and they'd seen their buddies killed.

To quote Gen. William T. Sherman, the Union general: "You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it."
 
The subject of 'prisoners' in the opening phases of an action has always been a touchy subject. I recall seeing a black&white film of a group of GI's bringing some German's out from a captured pillbox, everything seemed to be going well, GI's with arms ready, Germans with hands in the air. Suddenly someone fired a shot, and that was the end of them.
I remember an interview with the makers of 'The Longest Day', they really tried to get that film as right as it could be for the time (sometimes missing the mark) as they're where many vets still alive who would be watching it (early '60's), the one scene on top of the pillboxes where Germans came out of the fortifications with hands raised shouting 'Bitte, Bitte' and where shot down caused a great deal of grief with the makers and the censors at the time, but it was protrayed a delicately as possible. The makers felt it was important enough to show.
I believe "Bitte" means 'Please!' in German.
i'm glad I was never in that situation, it would be a hell of a thing to reconcile with oneself for the rest of your lifetime.
 
I believe "Bitte" means 'Please!' in German.

Smithhound, you are correct. By the way, my late father in law was Wermacht (German Army) and a paratrooper. He told me once that the popular word to use when surrendering (he never did) was "kamerad", which means "buddy" or "pal". He was one tough old man, and I really miss him. Seeing him and some of his war buddies who were in their late 70s, I had to wonder, how in the hell did we beat those guys in two world wars?

Regards,

Dave
 
Some things that were related to me by a man that served over there during the war;

The patrol he was part of was deep behind enemy lines when they captured six Germans. He said their options were that they could take them with them, they could take their weapons and let them go, they could tie them to a tree or... They were a small patrol, so they couldn't take them with them, tying them to the tree was no go, the Germans could've freed themselves or someone could have come along and found them and released them and then everyone would've known where to find the patrol he was in and simply letting them go was no good for the same reason. They simply had no choice.

On another patrol they took fire from someone with a rifle up in a tree, his LT and two SGTs were killed, with one other person wounded. It was a 15 year old boy who dropped the rifle and then climbed down out of the tree, he figured that he had used the five rounds he had and now he would surrender. He said that they liked their Lieutenant and the two Sargeants were good friends and they were pretty angry, they told the boy that nope, it doesn't work that way, stood him against the tree and shot him.

That winter he was on nighttime picket duty and he heard noises in the dark. He saw a German soldier who had "liberated" some wine and was wandering around drunk, he said that he would stumble over a rock, fall down, get up laughing and wander around some more, occasionally singing. He said had him in his sights, with the safety off and then had a change of heart, he said to me "That man was not a threat to me, he wasn't shooting at me, he didn't even have his rifle with him. Hell, that could've been me instead stumbling around, had I found that wine first." The German finally wandered away and fell asleep, apparently, and the rest of the night was spent trying to keep warm.
 
Charles MacDonald's "Company Commander" is one of the classic books of WW2. A segment covers captured prisoners and occurrence of those prisoners be shot while attempting to escape. Apparently this occurrence was dependent on the number of prisoners taken, GI individual temperament, and indifference of commanders.
 
My Grandmother had a cousin who served in Italy as an infantryman, and he told us a story one year when I was kid he was about 18 or 19 and heard a bunch of what he thought was talking in a shed.

he rasied up with his Thompson and sprayed the barn, and heard nothing but some moaining, he kicked open the door and found he shot up a bunch of geese.

That was all he said about the war.
 
Take a look at the Philippine insurection 1900-1902 (and on where the Morros are concerned). And now, we like to think we're above it all-yet we firebombed Japan (and Germany). Dropped two atomic bombs. An untold number of civilians killed and injured in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A foot note: During WW2 the Netherlands defended its boarders about a week-capitulated and approx. 14000 Dutch men joined the Nazi SS-In the earley 1980's, at least you could not find a Dutchman who had served in the German Army.


War is a nasty dirty business...for everyone involved.
 
A foot note: During WW2 the Netherlands defended its boarders about a week-capitulated and approx. 14000 Dutch men joined the Nazi SS-In the earley 1980's, at least you could not find a Dutchman who had served in the German Army.

And every Frenchman was in the Resistance ;D

As a kid, my best friends Grandparents came to live with them. one summer. On a book shelf after they moved in I noticed a one-liter sized pewter stein with a crest engraved on it. When I asked what it was his Grandfather gently took it out of my hands and said that it was his Unit Stein, from when he was in The War. His grandparents were from Hungary and it was a few weeks before it dawned on me that his war was WW1, not WW2 which to my parents was The War. It was very hard to look at this jovial little man in a wool cap and think that once upon a time, to my Great Uncles, he was the Enemy.
 
My father worked with a man who served in the 82nd in WWII, he told us 2 stories both about the Battle of the Bulge after Malmedy had been discovered.

One about a Belgian or a man in civlilian clothes caught trying to go through a rodablack and during a searchof his person they found a Brwoning Hi-Power. he never left the roadblock, and about not having the time nor the inclination to take prisoners after they heard about the masscre.

I suspect this sort of thing was likely more commonplace than the history books are willing to admit...there are accounts of Canadian soldiers executing SS and even Wehrmacht prisoners out of hand following the discovery of the bodies of Canadian prisoners who had been shot in the back of the head at the Abbe Ardenne by 12th SS Panzer, Hitler Jugend, in Normandy.
 
Some things that were related to me by a man that served over there during the war;

...

That winter he was on nighttime picket duty and he heard noises in the dark. He saw a German soldier who had "liberated" some wine and was wandering around drunk, he said that he would stumble over a rock, fall down, get up laughing and wander around some more, occasionally singing. He said had him in his sights, with the safety off and then had a change of heart, he said to me "That man was not a threat to me, he wasn't shooting at me, he didn't even have his rifle with him. Hell, that could've been me instead stumbling around, had I found that wine first." The German finally wandered away and fell asleep, apparently, and the rest of the night was spent trying to keep warm.

An interesting moment from the chaos of war. A couple of years ago, I had a veteran from the Scheldt Campaign (autumn 1944--to clear the Scheldt Estuary so Antwerp could be used as a supply centre) speak to my class about his experiences. He related a story about being in a small village with a Bren gun while watching 3 obviously very inebriated Wermacht regulars stumbling down the road towards him, bottle in hand and singing. The students thought this was pretty funny. Then, like a kid, he went "Brrrrrrrrraap!" while swinging his hand from left to right. He then very matter of factly stated that he "let them have it". Interestingly, he stated that he had no remorse...it was war, and if the tables had been turned it could just have easily have been him lying in the street.
 
I think the answer here is that after declareing war would be to draft the politicans. The japanese had a nice trick where one would walk out with his hands in the air, then bow in surrender and his buddy behind him would try to man the lmg strapped to his back!
 
I suspect this sort of thing was likely more commonplace than the history books are willing to admit...there are accounts of Canadian soldiers executing SS and even Wehrmacht prisoners out of hand following the discovery of the bodies of Canadian prisoners who had been shot in the back of the head at the Abbe Ardenne by 12th SS Panzer, Hitler Jugend, in Normandy.

My father was there when that happened. He told me once that on the night of June 6 or 7, some of his friends went out on a patrol. Someone asked him if he wanted to come along and he said "no", but someone else said he'd go. They were all found the next day or so with their hands tied and they'd been shot.

The was some speculation that perhaps the little embroidered "black devil" on their uniform sleeves had caused them to be shot as Commandos under Hitler's "Fuehrer Order" that dictated that all special service troops and paratroopers were to be shot on the spot. Anyway, they knew it was the Hitler Jugend guys that did it. 64 Royal Winnipeg Rifles were shot in Normandy, according to the monument if I remember correctly in Winnipeg, from the 6th to the 8th, as prisoners. They all had the little devil embroidered on their uniform sleeves, because their unit was nicknamed the "little black devils". I grew up wearing that uniform playing soldiers, but now I believe it is on display in the Winnipeg Rifles Museum in Winnipeg. It went to the Museum after he died, but I was already living down here and have not seen it, although I have some photos of the display that were sent to me. When I told my father sometime in the '70's or '80's that the commander of that unit, Kurt Meyer, had supposedly been hung (according to some book I read at the time) after the war, Dad just said "he had it coming." Turns out, that information was actually wrong and Meyer's sentence was commuted to prison time. But at the time, I thought that they'd hung Meyer because this old book had said so. Probably just as well, because of me Dad believed that Meyer was hung and was happy with that. Had I had an Internet to fast-check my facts, I'd have had to tell him that Meyer got off with prison time and that would have upset the old man.

At about the age of 12 or 13, I watched the movie "The Battle of the Bulge" at the Brandon Drive-in with my dad. When they shot all the American prisoners, I cursed the Germans. My father commented that "the Germans weren't the only ones who shot prisoners."

Later in life, I asked my dad about the comment. He told me that after the executions of Canadian prisoners in Normandy, it was difficult for S.S. to surrender to the Winnipeg Rifles. I do not know if other Canadian Units had the same SOP, but I know from both my Dad's comments and books I have read that this was probably true of the RWR. I asked my Dad if he had ever shot any prisoners, and he hesitated a bit, then said; "No, I never did. But I did stand guard once at the end of a little lane while a couple of my friends took some of those Hitler Youth S.S. boys down the path to let them try to escape."

Dad was a virtual fountain of information about the war if you could pry it out of him, and I spent until the day he died working on it. Once, at the Brandon Strand Theatre watching "The Longest Day", when the scene where Hans Priller and his wingmen fly above the Sword and Juno beaches strafing the landing troops, my Dad leaned over to comment to me, but due to some latent emotion spoke rather loudly and said, "I saw him!" Later, when the movie ended, people sitting around us started asking Dad if he had been there, and he got his 15 minutes of fame as people came to shake his hand and just touch his arm or say something to him. He had a strange grin on his face the rest of the day.

Around 1978 or so, I finally read Cornelius Ryan's "The Longest Day" on which the movie was based. At the end of the book, it tells a little bit about what happened to the people featured in the book. Priller, the German airman, and his wingman had been well regarded in Germany for having flown above the invasion beaches. Probably the only German planes above the beaches that day. If I remember correctly, he got a job high up in Lufthansa or something, and took that wingman with him. I told my Dad about it, and his comment was, "Good, he deserved it. He was a brave man."

So Dad was not always predictable in the way he'd respond to things. He sure hated the S.S. though.

Photo; My Dad died in 1994. This photo of him is from about 1989, with the 1928/A1 Thompson he liked so much. (He used a Bren gun during the war.) The gun is now in the Evergreen Machine Gun museum in Belmont, Manitoba. I always used to tease him that he reminded me of Warren Oates in "Dillinger"...and you know, thinking about it...he just sorta did.
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Charles MacDonald's "Company Commander" is one of the classic books of WW2. A segment covers captured prisoners and occurrence of those prisoners be shot while attempting to escape. Apparently this occurrence was dependent on the number of prisoners taken, GI individual temperament, and indifference of commanders.

This is the best answer we'll probably get. After speaking with hundreds of WWII vets and discussing this topic, among many others, my impression was that in some units, there was a high moral ethic and it was highly punished if you took the discretion to shoot prisoners, while in other units, leaders had either an "I don't care" or encouraging policy towards the practice. Whatever the attitude of the commander, it, of course, filtered down to the troops, as many/all leadership qualities do.

And, of course, situations will dictate certain necessities as well as the attitude of the front-line troops.

My uncle served in the 90th Infantry Division in Europe, and most of his memories of the war are grim and painful to him. He told me that after he watched his best friends head disintegrate from suffering a direct hit from an anti-tank gun, while his friend was less than 20' away from him, one's emotions of anguish for friends skyrocket while one's humanity for the enemy disappears.
 
Interesting. After WWII a lot of German soldiers served with the French Foreign Legion in French Indo China (Later Vietnam). The French executed any SS they found trying to join. They checked them for SS tattoos. When I was in the Corps and Korea we had former German soldiers who had volunteered. One was a former sargeant and a good friend of mine, another was something else. He was authorized to wear the Iron Cross on his Marine uniform that he had received for destroying 3 Sherman tanks. He used to brag about the exploits during WWII. Sadly, he did not survive Korea. Did I say sadly? We had some WWII veterans in Korea, some who had served in the U.S. Army before going into the Marine Corps.

I don't know who made that decision. This Kraut was thoroughly 100% German, and unfortunately, for him NOT liked.
 
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