Did he kill all those Germans?

[Doug627]

I had an uncle that served in the 3rd Army. He an another soldier were ordered to take a truck load of prisoners to H.Q. for questioning and to be back in 15 minutes. H.Q. was an hour away.

 

[Greyman50]

One Marine Division took no prisoners after their first " encounter " with the japs in 1943.

 

[ameridaddy]

If I recall correctly, commissioned officers can't wear foreign awards regardless.
...

I've seen American officers wearing French Croix de Guerre, Belgian Croix de Guerre, Vietnamese Gallantry Cross, etc.

 

[Beemerguy53]

...they had no provisions for prisoners. That was all.

I think that's happened, throughout history, more often than we would like to think...

 

[625-7]

Good read

mods keep this one open

 

[Smoke]

I had an uncle that served in the 3rd Army. He an another soldier were ordered to take a truck load of prisoners to H.Q. for questioning and to be back in 15 minutes. H.Q. was an hour away.

And for every story like that there's one in which officers like Richard Winters specifically went out of his way to prevent soldiers under his command from murdering prisoners

 

[crankyoldlady]

IIRC Dick Winters Book: Beyond Band of Brothers
(Which I got as a Karma here & passed along)
says the story is true along with Spiers killing a drunk Sgt. who refused to patrol

I remember it because I always thought it was just rumor
but Winter confirms it

So if anyone has the book they can check my memory

I watched a live interview with Dick Winters. He verbally confirmed.

 

[Eupher]

Foreign Badges for Officers

I've seen American officers wearing French Croix de Guerre, Belgian Croix de Guerre, Vietnamese Gallantry Cross, etc.

Correct. The last time I checked AR 670-1 (the Army regulation on uniform wear), the only BADGE I specifically know of that officers are not permitted to wear is the German Army Schützenschnur (weapons qualification badge) in either Bronze, Silver, or Gold. That badge may be worn by enlisted only.

This badge is the mounted on a braided cord that runs from the wearer's right shoulder to about mid-chest, with a button that anchors it under the lapel. See photo.

I can't speak for the other services.

 

[steelslaver]

My step father was an Navy, aircraft mechanic during WWII, his partner was a Marine. I worked for them before going into the Corps and a bit while home on leave as well as after. Jack was a great man and a great father to his kids. He had made repeated landings in the Pacific and he told me somethings that I will not repeat. But, I will say that taking a 18 year old man subjecting him to the brutality of war and he will make some decisions that might not look so good under some people's eyes.

I for one have no business judging what these men did.

 

[quikdraw67]

My 7th grade English teacher was a Battle of the Bulge veteran.

The stories he told us were mind blowing for a bunch of 12 year olds.

"Take these prisoners to the rear, but hurry back".

You can guess the rest.

 

[Skeet 028]

FIL fought the BOTB in the 3rd Army I think. He told me that the Red Cross attempted to protect captured Germans after they were found to have executed some allied prisoners. He specifically told me they didn't kill prisoners out of hand but the SS were quite often "disposed of". He also said many of the German soldiers were afraid of the SS. He told me of capturing a Tiger tank.. They were getting the crew out and the last out was an SS officer(tank commander?). FIL told him to get down to the ground..the guy spit on him..FIL's partner shot him off the tank...permanently. I don't know whether it is true but FIL said most of the SS officers understood and spoke english. FIL was a hard man before during and after the war. But the Bronze star Silver Star and French Croix de Guerre kind of told of his exploits. He was the head of a Heavy Machine gun squad and told me he lost a lot of people to the tune of 170% including replacements. Only he and his partner survived the war although he was grievously wounded at the end of the BOTB. He and his partner were both from W Va

 

[dmar]

But what a cast of posters! Five banned, two absent comrades, and one currently suspended!

I miss Feralmerril, he had some great stories...

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

My uncle at the Bulge, not the 82nd, said "yes".

 

[Eupher]

I have done a lot of reading on Ronald Speirs and I have yet to find a single first-person account of him murdering any German soldiers. I have not come across a single account where the person claims to be an eyewitness who saw him shoot.

The massacre at Malmedy would have had ZERO bearing on what Spiers may or may not have done the day after D-Day.

As for Sobel, when he died no one attended his funeral. If I understand what I read the nursing home that he was in didn't even notify his family that he had died.

In the book Band of Brothers EVERY single person they interviewed said that Sobel was a.jerk but they SPECIFICALLY credited his strict training regimen with making them the soldiers that they were.

Also his children all say that Sobel (for his age) was in excellent physical condition. He LEAD the runs up and down Curahee.

He also DID make the combat jump on D-Day, just with HHC not Easy.

After WWII he was recalled to active duty (as was Winters) for Korea and retired as a Lieutenant Colonel.

After the war he went down hill mentally. He ended up in an assisted living facility. He tried to shoot himself and only succeeded in severing his optic nerve and blinding himself.

To the question whether Speirs actually murdered those German prisoners after offering them a cigarette, please take a look at this interview with Dick Winters in the early 2000s. He was specifically asked that question and his response is remarkable.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-V6OAtgr6c[/ame]

 

[Greyman50]

Read Charles McDonalds , " A Time for Trumpets" for one of the best accounts of the Battle of the Bulge. A group of us were going on one of his tours of battlefields. Sadly he passed from cancer in 91?

 

[BearBio]

Isn't there a Constitutional Amendment that excludes war stories, hunting stories and fishing stories from perjury laws?

 

[7shooter]

I met soldiers and marines from WWii Korea and Viet Nam who described situations where prisoners were killed . One that sticks in my mind involved a young marine in Korea who had lied about his age so he could enlist. His unit was about move out and the officer in charge told a new replacement who had never been in combat to take a prisoner out behind a hill and shoot him . The young guy told the officer he would do it so the new guy wouldn't have it be his first experience in combat.

All the situations I heard about seemed justifiable to me even a couple that involved fragging of dangerous officers.

 

[usmc2427765]

Sometime the mystic associated with an unsubstantiated rumor can be powerful enough to make men in combat want to follow this officer and obey his commands because you really don't know what he might do if you screw up.

I served with Marine officers who never raised their voice except to be heard above gunfire however by simply looking in their eyes you were convinced that if you followed them, they would lead you hell and back in one piece. Capt. B.C. Steed USMC.

 

[transit]

Sounds like Dick Winters answered this in post #94.

Who wants to argue with him?

I'm comfortable with it.

 

[7shooter]

I agree that most offcers I heard about were honorable men but some were truly dangerous. An example was a WWII officer who didn't know how to do coordinates and called in artillery strikes on his own position twice. A young soldier offered to help after the first incident but was refused. After the second incident the soldier killed the officer with his Thompson. He fully expected to be arrested and prosecuted but nobody turned him in.