Sizing and lubing cast bullets. *Updated 3\11*

[Hunt200]

OK some more questions, I have been reading a lot but would like to know what you all do.

Do you guys size all your cast bullets?

If so, do you use a dedicated sizer or just a sizing die?

Do you have to lube the bullet before you size it? And then lube it again after?

How about lube, do any of you make your own and pan lube, or do you just use some type of moly lube or Alox?

I will be casting Lyman 358311, 38RN.

 

[310Pilot]

I usually size the bullets I cast, as they often come out of the molds a bit oversize. Not only are you using bullets of consistent diameter after sizing, but any mold release line is removed from the driving bands. I also like to weigh each of them and sort them into groups of equal (or nearly equal) weight, as they sometimes vary a bit. BTW, make sure to measure the diameter of your bullets as cast, you may be surprised.

I use both an RCBS Lube-A-Matic and Lee sizing dies, both do a good job, the primary difference is the RCBS machine lubes and sizes in one operation, whereas the Lee system sizes only, requiring either pan-lubing or tumble lubing (for bullets designed for tumble lubing). Lee does recommend that bullets be lubed prior to running them through the die, and re-lubed afterward, although lubing the die itself, instead of the bullets, with liquid alox prior to sizing, seems to work pretty well.

As to the lube itself, I generally prefer to make my own lube, whether for the RCBS machine or for pan-lubing. There are a lot of different recipes available, you might want to check out the castboolits forum for more info.

 

[Dan Cash]

+1 what 310 Pilot says although I do not size a lot of my cast bullets. I have a Lyman 45 lubricator/sizer which I use to seat gas checks when I use that typ bullet. I make my own lube and pan lube most of my bullets without sizing as it is much faster and the as cast bullets seem to do as well or better than sized bullets. I cast for .45-70, .44, .45ACP, .45 Colt, .38/357, .41 mag and .30 caliber rifles of various sizes. Good luck with your project but take warning; it is as addictive as S&W six shooters.

 

[dave b]

I usually size mine using a Lee sizer die. .358 for 38-357. I tumble lube them with 30-34% thinned with mineral spirits, Lee liquid lube. Once before,and once after sizing. I tumble them in a plastic butter tub and dump them onto a metal cookie pan to dry for a couple of days. I almost always size bullets for rifles ,but sometime for pistols I just lube em and shoot em. I have'nt used my Lyman 450 sizer in years.

 

[epj]

I use a Lyman 4500 sizer/lubricator with a heater. The heater allows me to use hard carnuba wax lubes that make the bullets as clean abd easy to handle as jacketed bullets. The lube also works well in helping to prevent leading. I absolutly hate stickey lubes.
I size bullets .001 over nominal groove diameter. Sizing also helps insure the bullets are round and have no rough spots from the mold seam. As Martha would say, "it's a good thing".

 

[Beemer-mark]

I use the Lee sizer die for .452, .303, .40 and .30, lube with Alox.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I only cast my Black Powder bullets. I buy all my Smokeless bullets from commercial casters, pre-lubed and sized. Casting is enough work that I don't bother casting Smokeless bullets, I am happy paying somebody else to do the work. With BP though, there are not very many commercial sources of good BP bullets.

I cast my BP bullets from a very soft alloy, either pure lead or a ratio of about 25/1 lead/tin. 44 and 45 caliber. These particular bullets have HUGE lube grooves to carry a tremendous amount of Black Powder compatible soft bullet lube. After using a RCBS lubesizer for a number of years I finally became fed up with it and bought a Star lubesizer. This is the cadillac of lubesizers. It feeds the bullets nose down, you don't have to pull it back up again, one bullet shoves out the one before it. My bullet lube is very soft and does not require heating, it flows at room temperature. I routinely size my 45s to .452, my 44s to .428. The die remains lubricated enough from each bullet that no extra lube is needed.

 

[calmex]

I use a Lyman 4500 sizer/lubricator with a heater. The heater allows me to use hard carnuba wax lubes that make the bullets as clean abd easy to handle as jacketed bullets. The lube also works well in helping to prevent leading. I absolutly hate stickey lubes.
I size bullets .001 over nominal groove diameter. Sizing also helps insure the bullets are round and have no rough spots from the mold seam. As Martha would say, "it's a good thing".

Here, we use both the Lee tumble lube system, and my old Lyman 450 sizer with Alox lubes. But they are sticky. I bought a Lubrisizer heater some years ago, but have not hooked it up yet. However, that would only take minutes.

I am interested in knowing MORE about the hard lubes, because I theorized that they would eliminate the stickiness. Could you please tell us more about your experiences with hard lubes, and let me know which lube you like the best? When I bought the lubrisizer heater, I ordered a few sticks of Rooster Red, which I have never used (as yet). Is there something better? Or is that a good hard lube? I'd like to hear the opinion of someone with more experience than me and you sound like you've got it!

Our shooting here is pretty much limited to bullets in .38 Special or .380 ACP at velocities under 1100 fps, but over 800 fps. MOST shooting would be with velocities at around 850 fps except for some of the high-end over-long .380 loadings out of the Glock 25, as some of those are in the 1050 fps* range. Bullet mix is straight Mexican Wheel-weights, which actually come out pretty hard. Thanks in advance.

*Using Glock 19 or 17 magazines in the Glock 25, one can load the .380 case to the same LOA as a 9 m.m. . We have had no problem in 30,000+ rounds firing 125 grain LRN bullets at around 1050 fps. It's not recommended proceedure, I admit, but it certainly goes on when the laws permit you nothing better.

 

[Hunt200]

Good replies guys, keep em coming.

So am I right in assuming you can lube the cast bullets with a case sizing lube and then run them trough a sizing die then pan lube them?

 

[Skip Sackett]

I've done several things. I started with just tumble lubing. Used Lee Alox then White Label lube. Used the Lee sizing dies when the bullets wouldn't chamber in my 45ACP because they were too big.

Then went to my own homemade lube using White Label Xlox, paraffin, beeswax, Johnson Paste Wax and a little of a lot of other things. Worked pretty well but very time consuming. I did buy an old Lyman #45 and a #450 and a bunch of different sizing dies and went to White Label's BAC lube. It worked well but was kind of sticky and not much less messy.

Went to Lyman Orange which requires a heater and am there now. It works and is a whole less messy. Have had zero leading problems with any of the lubes I've used, even my homemade stuff.

White Label has a whole lineup of lubes and some of the ones that require heat are next on my list.

All in all, I like the traditional lubes best. Not that the others don't work, 'cause they do but it just seems to be less messing around to get the same results.

If it were me and I was just starting out, I'd canvas ebay for some traditional luber/sizer stuff and go with it.

 

[epj]

I am using the White Label products. White Label Lube

I am currently using the Carnuba Red, but I have successfully used the BAC as well. The BAC does not require heat at normal room temperature and is almost as non sticky as the Carnuba Red. If you have a heater go for the Red, if not you'll probably be satisfied with the BAC.

 

[special44]

Sizing and lubing cast bullets

I size and lube my revolver bullets to the cylinder throat diameter, as determined by use of a minus (-) pin gauge set. The bullets for auto pistols are sized .001" over the groove diameter. I do all my sizing and lubing on older model Lyman #450 and Saeco
lubrisizers using 50-50 Alox & Beeswax.

 

[fredj338]

I size & lube all my cast bullets. If not, you are loading bullets of all diff sizes. TO me, just seems like accuracy would be better. I use a Star luber/sizer & WhiteLabel Carnuba. I have mede my own lube, but the WL stuff is great, afforadable & unless you have access to free beeswax, more work than it's worth IMO.

 

[walnutred]

I use an ole Lyman 450 lubrisizer on most of my cast bullets. The exception being bullets cast for 9x18 and 32 Long, which I use Liquid Alox for a lubricant.

My favorite lube is the White Label Lube Carnuba Red. As my Lyman 450 obviously did not come with a heater I use a home made heater. Took a 8"x12"x1/8" piece of scrap aluminum and bolted it between the workbench and the lubrisizer. When I'm lubing bullets I place an old electric cloths iron I bough at Goodwill on the aluminum plate and heat everything so it is warm to the touch. This is enough heat to let the hard lube flow very nicely.

 

[scattershot]

I used to cast my own bullets. I'd scrounge the lead, melt it, flux it, cast the bullets, run them through an old Lyman lubri-sizer, and all that.

Then I discovered the joys of buying in bulk, and never looked back.

When I started casting, commercial cast bullets weren't readily available. Gotta love being able to order a few thousand bullets over the internet and having them delivered to your door.

 

[Tell Sackett]

Well, this kind of got me to thinkin'. How much time do I have involved in casting and such like? So tonight I thought I'd start a forum journal, so to speak. I spent 1 hour actual casting time, that had 3 -20 to 25 minute waits added on to it, so add another hour 15 to that in actual time and I got 12lbs of 220gr LRN 45ACP bullets out of the deal.

There is one thing to mention though, these were water dropped and it takes a little longer to make sure them babies hit the hole, so to speak, than if I was droppin' them on a towel. So 12lbs * 7000 = 84,000gr / 220gr = 381(and some repeating) bullets. That means 1 hour actual casting time = over 350 bullets (10% culls, maybe) and that is a pretty fair night! If I tumble lubed them it would take about 10 minutes to do that and lay them out to dry. Load them and shoot them tomorrow.

The time involved is a secondary issue to me. When Obama came into office, and everyone got scared and hoarded every component known to man to make bullets, I still had the wheel weights in the garage and could make as many and as different as I wanted.

Freedom - PRICELESS!

 

[mark454]

Yes, size them all. Ideally, as mentioned here, +.001 over throat size if you can. I am currently using LBT Blue with heat in my Star. I am switching to White Label's Carnuba Red due to cost. LBT is still great stuff but $5 a stick is getting expensive. The Star saved my casting. I would have quit if I stuck with the Lyman sizer. They are a lot of work. Star is easy.
Mark

 

[Hunt200]

I am not sure if my question was answered, if it was I seemed to miss it.

Not using a Luber-sizer, can you lube the bullet before sizing with a die and then pan lube? If so will any lube work, like the lube you are making for the pan lube?

 

[Tell Sackett]

How do you plan to size the bullet if you don't use a luber/sizer of some sorts. Are you thinking that a reloading die will size it?

If you pan lube and cut them out with an expanded case, you have a bullet that can be shot. Just like Lee says in their manual. Shoot as cast.

The reloading die won't work because it is designed to work on the bullet size + case thickness.

Maybe we are all missing something here.

 

[n4zov]

I too am a little confused too by your questions. When you say "sizing die" are you referring to the die used to resize the cartridge case? The sizing die used to size cast bullets is an entirely different piece of equipment and generally is used in a sizer/lubricator like the Lyman 45, 4500 or the RCBS Lube-A-Matic Bullet Sizer-Lubricator.