McDonald vs. Chicago, What then?

I'm out of my league relative to some of the knowledgeable posts here but I do have another comment.

Hopefully, the IL state legislature will grow a set, conform to the intent of Heller vs DC and McDonald vs Chicago, liberalize their gun laws and preempt Chicago from continuing to suppress the 2nd Amendment rights of its residents. Don
 
Lew and Tom;
Nice summary. My thoughts while reading Justice Alito were that the home owner is going to get his gun for self defense and soon.
Assuming that the 7th reads this the same way and applies strict scrutiny as far as the self defense gun in the castle goes, most of what Chicago is proposing will not stand.
Once we are out of the castle though where the city would seem to have a stronger interest more work is no doubt needed.
Clearly the idea of using the “no-fly list” as a means of denying purchase is not going to stand scrutiny.

I enjoyed Justice Thomas’s opinion, perhaps the wave of the future?

I note in Justice Scalia’s concurance:
“I join the Court’s opinion. Despite my misgivings about Substantive Due Process as an original matter, I have acquiesced in the Court’s incorporation of certain guarantees in the Bill of Rights “because it is both long established and narrowly limited.””
Do I read here reluctance; perhaps he is about willing to join J. Thomas??

And by the way what a retirement gift J. Scalia gives J. Stevens, one long magnificent put-down.

Roger.

DonD
IMO Illinois politics is much more than usually screwed up. New people will be elected; new blood and enthusiasm just might upset the old machines. We can only hope and pray.
R
 
Roger,

I agree...much of what Chicago has proposed should be very vulnerable if the court applies strict scrutiny. Even intermediate review, if honestly applied, should put a lot of these proposals into question.

The Supreme Court in Heller passed over the issue of registration requirements, noting that Heller hadn't argued that issue. That doesn't mean that registration requirements are per se reasonable or permissible under Heller or McDonald...

Skoien makes clear that the "reasonableness" language in Heller and McDonald does not make it a walk in the park for a gov't seeking to restrict the 2nd Amendment right. Both elevated standards (strict scrutiny and intermediate review) discussed in Skoien are tough on the gov't, putting the burden of proof on it to present evidence, not just arugment, to make its case successfully.

At bottom, what the Mayor and his minions seemed to have missed, or perhaps simply refuse to see, is that Heller and McDonald recognized a FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT of the law abiding citizen to, at least, keep a handgun in the home for self defense.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. Cars kill more people annually then guns by a wide margin, and are the leading cause of death for children. Does Chicago impose any special requirements its residents who want to drive in the Windy City? My guess is no.

Why would a right be subjected to greater regulation/restriction then a privilege? Public safety is implicated with both cars and handguns.

What other fundamental right, to be exercised at home, requires the kind of procedural hurdles that Chicago contemplates? Does one need to jump through such hoops to buy a laptop computer to access the Internet...or to read a book, or argue politics in the home? Of course not.

McDonald made clear that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental right and that the Court would not accept treating it differently simply because it's about guns. After all, that's why they incorporated the 2nd Amendment...they applied the well established (if controversial in some legal circles) incorporation doctrine and treated the fundamental right recognized in Heller the same as any other fundamental right. Result? Incorporation.

One question I have is this: What's the reaction amongst Chicagoans to the McDonald decision? Has the question been polled? Nothing in the media coverage I've seen has attempted to get a handle on how the citizens of that toddlin' town feel about this. A few "man in the street interviews" hardly suffice. What do the people want? Is there no other voice but Daley's?
 
I'm out of my league relative to some of the knowledgeable posts here but I do have another comment.

Hopefully, the IL state legislature will grow a set, conform to the intent of Heller vs DC and McDonald vs Chicago, liberalize their gun laws and preempt Chicago from continuing to suppress the 2nd Amendment rights of its residents. Don
That's about as likely as the Iranian Majlis adopting chitlin's as the national dish.
 
One question I have is this: What's the reaction amongst Chicagoans to the McDonald decision? Has the question been polled? Nothing in the media coverage I've seen has attempted to get a handle on how the citizens of that toddlin' town feel about this. A few "man in the street interviews" hardly suffice. What do the people want? Is there no other voice but Daley's?
I've known people there who both supported the ban, AND illegally owned handguns.

Seriously, it's like the Soviet Union. Nobody respects the system in ANY way. They just pay lip service to it when necessary. Not just that law, but many others are enforced or not enforced on a wildly capricious basis, on the basis of graft, race, ethnicity and political affiliation. That means that respect for the law and the rule of law has been seriously eroded.

Based on what I've seen and what I've heard talking to people, if the law had been upheld they'd have shrugged and tried to figure out a way to survive in Chicago. Now that it's been struck down, they're doing exactly the same thing.

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of outrage at the recent shootings of armed criminals by civilians illegally possessing firearms. Even a few EXTREMELY liberal (if not leftist) commentators have stated that the ban was a total failure.

The only affirmative support I've seen has come from Machine politicians and "community activists". I did note a comment on SecondCityCop blog from someone who knew of a cop involved in some sort of "community policing" activity ORGANIZING people to encourage the city to RESIST the ruling. He didn't seem to know if it was orders from the top or the guy was just an idiot.
 
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From today's Chicag Tribune:
For the first time in decades, it would be legal for Chicagoans to keep handguns in their homes, under a proposal that Mayor Richard Daley announced Thursday in response to this week's U.S. Supreme Court decision that gutted the city's handgun ban.
The proposed city ordinance, which is expected to win full City Council approval Friday, includes many limitations and requirements, including the exclusion of garages, porches and outside stairs from the definition of a home.
The new law would allow each qualifying gun owner in a home to buy one handgun a month after obtaining a Chicago firearm permit that requires five hours of weapons training. That permit would then allow its holder to register each handgun, as required by the city.
People who have committed violent crimes or have two or more convictions for driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, would not qualify for the city gun permit.
The proposed law also makes it illegal to sell guns in the city, and it bans shooting galleries and target ranges.
 
The only true rights are rights recognized by judges, not by the constitution. It is easy to forget that five people, unelected and serving for life, can override the constitution any time they choose to.

That is why it is very important to ensure that appropriate judges are appointed to our courts. The important thing to remember is that certain types of politicians appoint certain types of judges. Even if President Obama were not anti-gun (although I personally think he is), he would still tend to appoint the type of judge that will have a liberal bias. An additional problem is that even judges that are appointed by so called conservatives tend to be liberal; John Stevens who wrote the dissenting opinion on Heller was appointed by President Ford.

The lesson is carefully watch who you vote for, because in the long run that will decide what rights you actually end up with. Many people I know did not even consider potential judicial picks when they voted for President Obama. I personally think this was a grave mistake. He has already appointed two justices, and they are both solid anti-gun votes. Since both Scalia and Kennedy were born in 1936, one or both of them may not make it through President Obama's second term (if he gets one), or even his first term. This may mean the 5-4 Heller/McDonald court becomes 4-5 or 3-6.

As they say, elections have consequences.
 
Chicago City Council passed the new ordinance, 45-0, this morning. Key provisions of the law are:

*Applicants would need a Chicago firearm permit, costing $100 every three years, as well as an Illinois firearm owner's ID card. They would be required to register all their guns with the city, at a cost of $15 per gun every three years.

*Firearm sales would be banned in the city.

*Chicago residents could register no more than one handgun per month for each qualifying adult in a home.

*People who now own firearms illegally would get a 90-day grace period after the new law takes effect to register the guns without penalty.

*Gun training totaling four hours in a classroom and an hour on a firing range is required before getting a permit. But firing ranges are banned, so training would need to be completed outside Chicago.

*To transport a gun, it would have to be "broken down," not immediately accessible, unloaded and in a firearm case.

* Firearms could be possessed only inside the dwelling. It would be illegal to have a gun in the garage, on the front porch or in the yard. Guns also would not be allowed in hotels, dorms and group living facilities.

*Only one firearm per permit holder can be kept in ready-to-fire condition. Other guns must be taken apart or have trigger locks in place. In homes with minors, all guns must be secured when they are not in the possession of the owner.

*Permit applicants must be at least 21 years old, unless a parent signs for someone 18 or older.

*Assault weapons are banned, as are sawed-off shotguns and "unsafe" handguns, as defined by the Chicago Police Department, which will maintain an online list of prohibited guns.
 
Pray for the continued good health of the Justices of the US Supreme Court, since I can only remember five names at a time, my litany is; God save the honorable members of the court; Alito, Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas.

Elections have consequences!
 
Safearm ... It's probably to soon to be asking this question but do you think the transportation rule will allow non residents to transport firearms through Chicago or into and out of O'Hare ?
 
My mother still lives in the north Chicago suburbs and I travel there frequently (going next week). I've never had a problem with traveling through O'Hare with a firearm in my luggage, as I have to follow the TSA rules like everyone else. I really have never thought it was an issue; although O'Hare is in the City of Chicago, air transport is regulated by the feds.
Same with firearms in a vehicle. As long as I follow the state rules, i.e., unloaded and in the trunk, traveling through Chicago to the suburbs shouldn't be an issue.
Also, I doubt that I'm on anybody's radar screen (I try hard NOT to be!). I'm a retired LEO and military officer, and I follow the rules, including the speed limits. Anything beyond my control can happen that might reveal I have a firearm, but I take what I think are reasonable steps to insure I don't incite a fellow LEO to act against me.
 
Dirtbag, SCUMBAG Chicago city council voted 45-0 to apply the most restrictive handgun regs in the nation according to MSN.com. Those losers just won't quit.

I'd guess they'll have a suit filed against them by the NRA within a week and they'll be back in court and will lose again.

Sad that any reasonable human being has to live in Chicago and put up with these continuing abuses.

It's certainly clear that absolute firearms bans work very well when Chicago has 55 shootings in a single weekend. Don
 
Off to court we go!

Lew;
It would seem that The Mayor and City Council (45-0 for the new ordinances) intend to keep the ball in the air as long as possible. If they pass enough restrictions surely some will stand up in court.
The City’s web site said they confiscated 10,000 guns last year; it would be interesting to know under what circumstances.
The mandatory training and range requirement is also a non-starter IMO, it might be a great idea if it was voluntary at no cost and if several city ranges were available.
I doubt a gun store ban is doable either, regulation to increase costs yes, ban no. Annual fees (gun ownership poll taxes)? One gun per house, surely I will not be expected to carry it from room to room, what about the other occupants; they will not be allowed self-defense?

The standards for the right to keep and use for self-defense are going to have to be similar to the standards for free speech.

I will take the word of the various media as to the content of the new Chicago ordinances. If media accounts are true, IMO some, many, or all of these new restrictions will fail the strict scrutiny test.
Hi, Ho, it’s off to court we go.
 
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I've hated Chicago ever since boot camp in Great Lakes in January! Never gone back. Never will!
 
Talk about a bunch of dopes. The Chicago aldermen voted 45-0 to enact "reasonable" restrictions on handgun ownership which include requiring registration and at the same time allowing only one 'registration' per month; the restriction that home owners may only have one functioning handgun in readily operable condition; must take training and can't have more that two DUI's. One of these delusional aldermen said, "I can't imagine why anyone would oppose these reasonable regulations, these reasonable restrictions, but I know there will be those who believe that this right to bear arms is unrestricted and that anyone can have any weapon anywhere at all," Ald. Joe Moore, 49th, told the mayor during the council meeting. "I will stand with you defending this ordinance against the inevitable attacks from the far right wing, and I hope that wisdom and rationality prevail in our court system and that these laws will be upheld."

I am glad I don't live in Chicago.
 
Safearm ... It's probably to soon to be asking this question but do you think the transportation rule will allow non residents to transport firearms through Chicago or into and out of O'Hare ?
If you conform to the requirements of FOPA, Chicago's rules are irrelevant.
 
Talk about a bunch of dopes. The Chicago aldermen voted 45-0 to enact "reasonable" restrictions on handgun ownership which include requiring registration and at the same time allowing only one 'registration' per month
Chicago's had registration for in excess of thirty years. The just repealed ban merely limited NEW registrations to cops, city council members, and other apparatchiks.

Daley could have gone back to the status quo ante and saved millions of dollars in legal fees. But it's not HIS money being wasted, and it was his best shot at keeping the "paper bag test" for gun ownership in force.

No doubt he'll be taken to court again... and lose... again.

At the same time, it will be easier to own a handgun in Chicago than in New York City.
 
Evidently Mayor Bloomberg has decided to “streamline” the NYC rules as well; hopefully they are feeling a bit of draft in NY from SCOTUS and are afraid of catching cold.

I am very sure that not all of the new Chicago ordinances will survive what we hope is strict scrutiny. Remember the first battles will be over having a gun in the home for self-defense, because that is what McDonald was about.
What might the city’s compelling interest be in you and your home defense gun? The courts have yet to divine, but I would argue that it would be a good thing to be trained in your own self-defense, however lack of training certainly cannot be a rationale to deny your fundamental right to self-defense. The same (see Lew #73 above) applies to registration. The fact that registration has been required for years in many places does not mean that it will pass the new test. SCOTUS has given us a whole new ball game since it has recognized our fundamental right to self-defense. Remember also that recognition of that right may set a new standard in the rules for self-defense.

It is a different matter than the right to carry. I would suppose that the courts may find that once you are away from your “castle” the government has a more compelling interest in, for example; the level of your training.
I don’t necessarily agree but the level of my agreement will not be an issue.
 
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