19 year old burglar shot at the back door in Utah, this should be interesting

Status
Not open for further replies.
76-2-405. Force in defense of habitation.
(1) A person is justified in using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other's unlawful entry into or attack upon his habitation; however, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if:
(a) the entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner, surreptitiously, or by stealth, and he reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person, dwelling, or being in the habitation and he reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence; or
(b) he reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony in the habitation and that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.
(2) The person using force or deadly force in defense of habitation is presumed for the purpose of both civil and criminal cases to have acted reasonably and had a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or serious bodily injury if the entry or attempted entry is unlawful and is made or attempted by use of force, or in a violent and tumultuous manner, or surreptitiously or by stealth, or for the purpose of committing a felony.

As a retired Utah Peace Officer of 21 years service I would like to call your attention to the bolded section of Title 76 UCA above. This is Utah law, and all that will be considered in a bench trial, and if it gets to an indictment I sincerely hope he requests a bench rather than jury trial, of the homeowner in the cited case which occurred at approximately 3:00AM today. As described in all accounts on the local media which I have heard so far the circumstances of the immediate event fit the code precisely.

What you would do, or think you would, or what the law is in Texas, Virginia or Hawaii have exactly nothing to do with the situation, only Utah statute. If any of you are ever in a similar circumstance, and it is extremely unlikely, you will be judged by applicable law in your own state so you had better learn well what it says.

Just a few minutes ago it was reported on the news that the accomplice of the burglar who was shot this morning. There were two of them!! Maybe the homeowner was aware of this and it was not reported. Giving him the benefit-of-the-doubt does this change any of your impressions of this situation? They also reported that his (shootee) father had been interviewed by the media and made the statement about his son that "He was just getting his life together". Thought you would like that.

I certainly hope this adjudicated while Mrs. Miller is still in office and not after Mr. Gill takes office, but in the usually time such events take to investigate and, possibly, file it isn't likely.
 
Alk, does the second statute supersede the first or are they considered equally in cases such as this? And I had the same thought about the change of DA that is going to take place in the upcoming months and how that could affect this case. Although, I could see this being a priority for the current DA as she was drug through the mud in the recent election and may want to leave the office trying to save some respect that her democratic opponent recently questioned.
 
In Louisiana homicide is justafiable by someone inside if a person is in or attempting to make an unlawful entry into your dwelling, business, or car. The shooter must believe the use of deadly force was necessary to prevent entry or compel the intruder to leave the premises or vehicle.
It is justified even though the owner does not retreat from the encounter.
Steve

I could write a book on this, having encountered it often. You are correct as stated but there are provisions and clauses that people do not know of in the law.

To legally shoot one at a residence, the homeowner must be inside the residence. You cannot shoot them from the front yard as you see them trying to break in.

In a car, the car owner has to be inside the car at the time and the perp has to be trying to take possession of the car from the owner. A car owner cannot shoot someone trying to steal his car in the middle of the night from the owners driveway as the owner is inside the home.

NOW, as to the issue of shooting someone period. It is more difficult to get a criminal charge to hold against a person than it is to get a civil judgement against someone. The standards for experts to qualify in court is more strict in criminal cases than in civil court where only money is involved.

I would not shoot someone trying to break in, but rather wait for them to open the door or window and then shoot them while they are still outside. Having to replace carpet, doors or such from bullet holes or blood is not a good thing. Also the crime scene investigators will mark and tear out carpet where a body laid inside the residence. I was in one trial where the investigators took the sheetrock from the wall to show blood spatter. Shooting someone before the door or window opens can be a bad thing as well. Suppose they had the wrong house and was trying a key. Maybe they were trying to repo the home. Too many potentials. Just wait til the window or door has been opened by force so felony intent is there.
 
in many states your right to repel with deadly force an attempted forced entry into your home is still legal and in a few states it has been reinstituted.
 
All I can say is that I would not have fired in this case UNLESS I saw that the perp was armed with a firearm AND/OR he kept his hands where I could see them and didn't start fumbling around in his pockets.
 
Last edited:
All I can say is that I would not have fired in this case UNLESS I saw that the perp was armed with a firearm AND/OR he kept his hands where I could see them and didn't start fumbling around in his pockets.
  1. What kind of firearm did Hayes and Kommisarjevsky use to slaughter the doctor's family in Connecticut?
  2. How about if he had a 12" hunting knife instead of a gun?
Once you break into my home with ANYTHING that can reasonably construed as a weapon, you should expect to be shot.
 
And in Kommisarjevsky's own words:
"If you don't want to defend your family, then take your chances with the criminal while police sit outside and follow protocol"

 
At least twice in my life I would have been fully justified shooting three different people in my house. I didnt and handeled it my own way and police never got involved.
 
Armchair Experts

It seems like we're all playing armchair expert here. To tell the truth, does anyone here really think that a better outcome could have happened given the stress of the situation the home owner encountered? At 3 am with 2 guys trying to get in your house....it's dark, you know it isn't the welcome wagon outside, there's a wife and 2 kids to think about, and you need to do something fast. Yeah he could have yelled at these guys...but he also could have been shot when he yelled. At least the bad guy got the worst of it this time, unlike the Komisarjefsky tragedy.
 
Texas has a lot of common sense Deadly Force Statutes.
And that ladies and gentlemen is one of the many reasons I
live here.

Rule 303
 
i knew a old man back in the 70s a guy came to his door late at nite beating on the door of his store that he also lived in, told him when i get in there im gona kill you! well he never made it in, shot him threw the door with a shotgun, no charges were filed , why take a chance?
 
Last edited:
This latest news makes it sound like the family is trying to prime the environment for a civil suit.
 
So here in Salt Lake a 19 year old male was trying to break into someones house through the back sliding glass door. The homeowner saw the man and shot him through the glass door. The would be burglar ran away and fled as far as the middle of the street where he was found dead by the police after the homeowner called 911. The homeowner hasn't been charged with anything yet
In California, he would have been charged with murder on the spot.
 
I see nothing wrong with the candle light vigil for his soul. Maybe we're a bit too hardened. A young man is dead. Maybe someone does need to pray for his soul.

I understand that his own actions are what brought him to the brink, and got him dead. The homeowner probably is already having sleepless nights, as are the parents of the young man. Let them pray and mourn in peace. Or even support their prayers. Nothing wrong with it at all.

I'm not advocating civil suits against the dead crooks victims. Thats a totally different thing.
 
I see nothing wrong with the candle light vigil for his soul. Maybe we're a bit too hardened. A young man is dead. Maybe someone does need to pray for his soul.
I'll go along with that.

I understand that his own actions are what brought him to the brink, and got him dead. The homeowner probably is already having sleepless nights, as are the parents of the young man.
I think the worst is what he put on the homeowner. He is an innocent victim and gets to serve life living with killing somebody.

The criminal's parents are victims too, but they raised him. The homeowner had nothing to do with any of it. I feel the most for that guy.
 
I would think that seeing an armed homeowner standing inside would be enough to discourage a would be burglar from continuing with the break in. I don't think the shooting was justified, even if it was legal to do so. The homeowner probably has an expensive civil suit in their future...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top