New to me 4553TSW and a slight problem

[CL21376]

Hi guys...First post here, been lurking for awhile, hopefully I can get some help on a problem with my 4553.

Picked her up over the weekend in probably 95% condition...I wanted a 4513TSW, but figured this was the next best thing, and I could change it to TDA if I really wanted to. There was some minor wear on the slide, but everything looked good. Cleaned and lubed the gun and took it to the range.

The gun consistently fails to fire on the first round. Hammer drops and no bang. Inspection of the rounds shows no primer strike. Racking the slide to bring up the next round sometimes helped, sometimes didn't. Removing the magazine and reinserting it sometimes helped, and sometimes didn't.

Gun was more likely to not fire if I loaded a mag, dropped the slide, then ejected the magazine to top it off (7+1) and reinsert. Once I got the first round to go off, the gun functioned flawlessly.

This was with WWB, Federal and Remington 230 grain ball ammo. Unfortunately I only got one magazine with the gun, so I cant isolate it to a mag issue until I find another one. And with this being my 4th S&W since Nov, funds are kinda drying up (read wifey said cool it).

This is my first DAO weapon, am I missing something in how this should operate? Or is there something else I should look into? It seems odd the weapon only malfunctions on the first round, then otherwise functions fine. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for your help!
chris

 

[novalty]

This will sound like a stupid question, but does it have a grip pin installed?

 

[CL21376]

I'll have to check when I get home from work. I didn't take the grips off when I cleaned it.

 

[novalty]

The only reason I ask, is because I bought a 5906 NIB from CDNN a couple years ago and was missing a grip pin, it caused me to have issues similiar to what you are experiencing. It would fire intermittently, and when it didn't fire there was no strike mark on the cartridges. S&W had me send it back, and when it came back they had put in a grip pin and polished the feed ramp, has fired 100% ever since--hence with a set of Crimson Trace grips it is my home-defense weapon.

 

[18DAI]

I'd check the firing pin channel for accumulated gunk.......maybe a rusting spring too.

Flush it with CLP and then blow it out with compressed air. Odd that it will function once topped off......hopefully Fastbolt will see your post and diagnose the issue. Regards 18DAI.

 

[CL21376]

Grip pin is present and accounted for. I'll check the firing pin channel tonight.

I attached a pic (i hope!) of the new to me 4553.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[novalty]

Nice looking 4553TSW. I think I8DAI, has probably got the answer for you, as that was suggested to me when I had experienced problems with my 5906.

 

[WR Moore]

The lack of firing pin imprint on the primer would seem to show that the firing pin safety device isn't releasing. Check to make sure that there's 2 levers in the frame slot to the right (from the rear) of the disconnector. I don't have access to my parts manuals to verify if there's slightly oversize firing pin safety levers to take care of these situations. I also can't recall off the top of my head if it's possible to stick the levers (sear drop & firing pin safety) in in the wrong order or if the DAO even has the sear drop lever.

In addition to cleaning the firing pin tunnel & inspecting the firing pin, make sure the firing pin travels without any drag from burrs on the pin or firing pin safety plunger.

Another possibility is that you're not completing the trigger stroke, stopping the pull just as the hammer releases. This might prevent the firing pin safety lever/plunger from fully releasing the firing pin.

 

[CL21376]

The lack of firing pin imprint on the primer would seem to show that the firing pin safety device isn't releasing. Check to make sure that there's 2 levers in the frame slot to the right (from the rear) of the disconnector. I don't have access to my parts manuals to verify if there's slightly oversize firing pin safety levers to take care of these situations. I also can't recall off the top of my head if it's possible to stick the levers (sear drop & firing pin safety) in in the wrong order or if the DAO even has the sear drop lever.

In addition to cleaning the firing pin tunnel & inspecting the firing pin, make sure the firing pin travels without any drag from burrs on the pin or firing pin safety plunger.

Another possibility is that you're not completing the trigger stroke, stopping the pull just as the hammer releases. This might prevent the firing pin safety lever/plunger from fully releasing the firing pin.

There are 2 levers to the right of the frame.

I followed the instructions in the 'How Filthy is Your Pin Channel' and removed the firing pin. It looked almost new, no accumulation of gunk. It didn't seem to have any travel issues. I cleaned it all up anyway though. The spring was fine, no signs of rust.

If I wasn't completing the trigger stroke, would the hammer still fall?

Could it be the magazine disconnect safety? It only FTF on the first round of the magazine. And it is worse when the mag is topped off (7+1).

Any other ideas?

chris

 

[handgunner356]

If there are no primer hit marks then it would almost have to be a case of the firing pin block not releasing. The only thing that I can think of with the loaded mag, is that it's pushing the slide away from the frame just enough that the firing pin lever isn't getting enough lift against the firing pin plunger. I would probably replace the firing pin safety lever myself and see if that didn't take care of the problem.

 

[SW CQB 45]

With a field stripped frame....pull the trigger. The lever on the right side of the frame should lift. U can press it down and felt it lifting during trigger stroke.

Does your safety plunger in the slide depress?

 

[SW CQB 45]

If u near victoria tx...I can look at it since the wife said cool it

 

[CL21376]

With a field stripped frame....pull the trigger. The lever on the right side of the frame should lift. U can press it down and felt it lifting during trigger stroke.

Does your safety plunger in the slide depress?

The lever on the right side of the frame does indeed visibly lift. Pressing my finger down on it during the trigger stroke I can feel it as well.

Yes, the safety plunger depresses, but it is stiffer than the other plunger.

Thanks!
chris

 

[CL21376]

If u near victoria tx...I can look at it since the wife said cool it

I'm in NC, but thanks for the offer!

I think I might need to call S&W and see if they will take a look at it

 

[SW CQB 45]

Next test....

Gun together (verify empty)

Insert empty mag

Pull trigger on empty chamber and hold trigger to rear

With thumb (same hand) cock and hold hammer to rear (good luck if bobbed)

Take a small 1/16" punch and depress the firing pin

Should feel no resistance from the firing pin safety

If u do....out of time...worn parts

 

[CL21376]

Next test....

Gun together (verify empty)

Insert empty mag

Pull trigger on empty chamber and hold trigger to rear

With thumb (same hand) cock and hold hammer to rear (good luck if bobbed)

Take a small 1/16" punch and depress the firing pin

Should feel no resistance from the firing pin safety

If u do....out of time...worn parts

And of course its the bobbed hammer, lol. Had to figure out how to use the thumb and 1st finger on my weak hand to pull it back...

Anyway, no resistance, firing pin pushes in/out freely.

 

[SW CQB 45]

on your two levers in the frame...

the firing pin safety lever is on the right side?

could the slide be slightly out of battery when the mishaps occurred?

WRMoore mentioned not pulling completely and just as the hammer falls, the trigger is let go which may cause the firing pin safety to interfer with the firing pin travel.

weak or modified mainspring

short or broken firing pin tip

concave base ammo

just a few more guesses

 

[CL21376]

on your two levers in the frame...

the firing pin safety lever is on the right side?

could the slide be slightly out of battery when the mishaps occurred?

WRMoore mentioned not pulling completely and just as the hammer falls, the trigger is let go which may cause the firing pin safety to interfer with the firing pin travel.

weak or modified mainspring

short or broken firing pin tip

concave base ammo

just a few more guesses

I can check the levers...2 on the right, one on the left. Am I trying to confirm the levers were not somehow reversed?

I suppose its possible the slide is out of battery. How would I tell that? I experienced the problem regardless of if I used the slide release, or if I slingshot the slide, and it was on virtually every magazine that I experienced a first shot misfire.

I was alone on the range, so there wasn't anyone else I could let shoot it. It would seem odd to me that I was short stroking the trigger only on the first shot.

I haven't had the grips off yet, I guess I should do that and check the main spring isn't modified or otherwise damaged.

I had the firing pin out and it seemed fine. Again though, it would seem odd that if there was a FP issue it wouldn't have misfired more.

I was using 3 different brands of ball ammo, and it misfired on the first shot with all three.

I was hoping this was something minor I could take care of but I have a feeling I'm going to have to send it back to the mother ship. I'm going to fill out the online form for a return label. S&W took care of my Shorty 9 extractor issue, hopefully they can figure this one out too

Thanks for your help guys! This forum is a great resource!

chris

 

[SW CQB 45]

not sure if the gun would work if the levers are switched on the right side.

is there any chewing (meaning contact with your firing pin safety) on the firing pin or on the exposed portion of your firing pin safety plunger?

when doing the test above....do not pull on the trigger excessively. only duplicate an actual trigger pull weight. there might be slight contact (firing pin and firing pin safety plunger if out of time or worn) and with an excessive "hammer pull" (meaning hard slap) might bypass the safety where a more delicate or "controlled press" will cause it to misfire because of ther interference.

again purely guesses not seeing the gun

here is an image of my CS9D which is DAO

 

[CL21376]

not sure if the gun would work if the levers are switched on the right side.

is there any chewing (meaning contact with your firing pin safety) on the firing pin or on the exposed portion of your firing pin safety plunger?

when doing the test above....do not pull on the trigger excessively. only duplicate an actual trigger pull weight. there might be slight contact (firing pin and firing pin safety plunger if out of time or worn) and with an excessive "hammer pull" (meaning hard slap) might bypass the safety where a more delicate or "controlled press" will cause it to misfire because of ther interference.

again purely guesses not seeing the gun

here is an image of my CS9D which is DAO

I don't see any excessive wear on the firing pin or the firing pin safety plunger.

I re-did the test (I'm getting good at cocking that bobbed hammer back!) making sure to use light pressure on the trigger. Again, I couldn't feel any interference when pressing in on the firing pin.

edit: took the grips off, no signs of damage to the main spring or the plunger at the end