Multiples of Every Day Carry Guns.

[ContinentalOp]

I'm a big fan of redundancy, though I'm not exactly there yet. My two main carry guns, a 3" S&W 65 and a 642, are in my avatar. I also have a 2" 64. They all have the same manual-of-arms. I do hope to add a no-dash 640 (.38 Special, not .357 Magnum) and, hopefully, another 642 to my collection before the end of the year.

 

[pawncop]

i think you have some fine revolvers.

However, my philosophy is a little different -

"Beware of the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it."

Back in the day, I was qualified with at least ten (10) different sidearms. Today it is a total of four (4).

I carry my duty sidearm (S&W M&P 45 ACP), my primary off duty sidearm (Glock 32 - 357 Sig) and two others (Colt Mustang 380 ACP and S&W 686 2 1/2") for off duty carry.

 

[230therapy]

Yes...this is very important to do. What if one of your carry guns is stolen, lost, or confiscated?

I take it beyond guns. I double up on holsters and support gear.

 

[Cyrano]

I don't get enough trigger time with my 638 now, don't see why I should have two of them and shoot each less.

 

[J.P.60]

I don't get enough trigger time with my 638 now, don't see why I should have two of them and shoot each less.

Because no man-made object is above the potential for failure. If your gun fails, you are left without. Without is not a good thing.

Shooting each less is a bad thing? It's not as if your gun will expire without a diet of "X" number of rounds each month. The gun doesn't need practice, you do. What the gun needs is a backup, just in case it gets the flu!

 

[Sebago Son]

The Idea...

"Beware of the man with only one gun, he probably knows how to use it."

Back in the day, I was qualified with at least ten (10) different sidearms. Today it is a total of four (4).

I struggled with this same issue philosophically. Every time something new and interesting would come my way, I'd carry it for a while and then move on to something else.... not a very effective or disciplined attitude really.

Finally about 10 years ago I concluded that I was only a mediocre shot with a random range of sidearms and was not familiar enough with any of them to say that their use was second nature. Seeing the danger in this I focused on those guns that seemed to make the most sense for me and concentrated my training and logistics for these arms only. This has paid off since then, and I feel much more confident in my abilities.

I settled on these designs for my "Serious Gun" Battery and have a multiple duplicates of each.

Glock 22. All upgraded Gen 2 guns with 3 lbs triggers, extended slide releases and nite sights.

SiG 220. Early German guns with night sights.

S&W 640-1. Magna stocks with Tyler-T adapter and stock springs.

Not to say that I don't seek out, acquire and shoot other guns that I like, but the ones I train with seriously are all the same.

Drew

 

[MotorCityGun]

The need for a BUG in the (un)likelihood that your primary one might fail in a SD incident, seems to be a bit of stretch for me. Although I can't provide actual statistics or data, I'm wondering if being armed with two of the same weapon is overkill (pun intended). I have a few questions:

1. What is the likelihood/odds, assuming that you're not LEO, you will need to use/discharge your weapon in a SD/HD incident? Maybe once or twice in your (armed) life time? (Hopefully, never)
2. What is the likelihood/odds that your SD weapon will FTF or malfunction? I believe there is recent reliability/statistical data available on M&P's .40 cal that was conducted by BATFE, but I'm guessing something like 1 in 5,000 to 10,000 rounds.
3. Now, what is the likelihood/odds that your weapon will malfunction at the very moment you will need it for SD?
4. And if you don't like those odds, why not carry 2 or even 3 BUG's?

I'm not a statistician or mathematician, but whatever the "odds" are when combining #'s 1, 2 & 3 above, has to be pretty high. So rather than buying and carrying another similar pistol JUST IN CASE my primary malfunctions in the unlikely event that I will need to use it for SD...well, I guess I'll just take my chances with "only" one .40c on me.

 

[The Big D]

I am wholly in agreement with you, MCG.

(Now donning flame suit.)

The likelihood of anyone needing a BUG is soooooo infinitessimally (is that a word?) small.

I was a LEO for 30.5 years and never carried a BUG...in fact, we were NOT permitted to carry a second handgun though cruisers were equipped with a shotgun or rifle in most circumstances.

Moreover, I have never, ever, had a firearms malfunction that rendered the gun unable to fire. That's NEVER!!!

Now a carry a 60 or 642. I am absolutely confident that I will never need more. (If I do and didn't have "enough," all of you can say "I told him so.")

Be safe.

The need for a BUG in the (un)likelihood that your primary one might fail in a SD incident, seems to be a bit of stretch for me. Although I can't provide actual statistics or data, I'm wondering if being armed with two of the same weapon is overkill (pun intended). I have a few questions:

1. What is the likelihood/odds, assuming that you're not LEO, you will need to use/discharge your weapon in a SD/HD incident? Maybe once or twice in your (armed) life time? (Hopefully, never)
2. What is the likelihood/odds that your SD weapon will FTF or malfunction? I believe there is recent reliability/statistical data available on M&P's .40 cal that was conducted by BATFE, but I'm guessing something like 1 in 5,000 to 10,000 rounds.
3. Now, what is the likelihood/odds that your weapon will malfunction at the very moment you will need it for SD?
4. And if you don't like those odds, why not carry 2 or even 3 BUG's?

I'm not a statistician or mathematician, but whatever the "odds" are when combining #'s 1, 2 & 3 above, has to be pretty high. So rather than buying and carrying another similar pistol JUST IN CASE my primary malfunctions in the unlikely event that I will need to use it for SD...well, I guess I'll just take my chances with "only" one .40c on me.

 

[38-44HD45]

The need for a BUG in the (un)likelihood that your primary one might fail in a SD incident, seems to be a bit of stretch for me. Although I can't provide actual statistics or data, I'm wondering if being armed with two of the same weapon is overkill (pun intended). I have a few questions:

1. What is the likelihood/odds, assuming that you're not LEO, you will need to use/discharge your weapon in a SD/HD incident? Maybe once or twice in your (armed) life time? (Hopefully, never)
2. What is the likelihood/odds that your SD weapon will FTF or malfunction? I believe there is recent reliability/statistical data available on M&P's .40 cal that was conducted by BATFE, but I'm guessing something like 1 in 5,000 to 10,000 rounds.
3. Now, what is the likelihood/odds that your weapon will malfunction at the very moment you will need it for SD?
4. And if you don't like those odds, why not carry 2 or even 3 BUG's?

I'm not a statistician or mathematician, but whatever the "odds" are when combining #'s 1, 2 & 3 above, has to be pretty high. So rather than buying and carrying another similar pistol JUST IN CASE my primary malfunctions in the unlikely event that I will need to use it for SD...well, I guess I'll just take my chances with "only" one .40c on me.

If I were content playing the odds, I would not even carry one gun. Odds are, I'll never need one. Same thing I hear from some of my CHL students; "I'll only carry where it is dangerous." "I'll only carry in my car." "I'll only carry when I'm out after dark." I call this "concealed carry Russian roulette." If we knew when and how we'd need to be armed to survive, we'd simply avoid such places and situations altogether. I used to shoot lots of IPSC matches. Despite the fact that none of the targets ever shot back at me, Mr. Murphy rode on my shoulder to enough matches to convince me that failing to carry a BUG was equivalent to driving around without a spare tire. Do I ever expect to need my backup gun? No, I do not. However, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[ContinentalOp]

The need for a BUG in the (un)likelihood that your primary one might fail in a SD incident, seems to be a bit of stretch for me. Although I can't provide actual statistics or data, I'm wondering if being armed with two of the same weapon is overkill (pun intended). I have a few questions:

1. What is the likelihood/odds, assuming that you're not LEO, you will need to use/discharge your weapon in a SD/HD incident? Maybe once or twice in your (armed) life time? (Hopefully, never)
2. What is the likelihood/odds that your SD weapon will FTF or malfunction? I believe there is recent reliability/statistical data available on M&P's .40 cal that was conducted by BATFE, but I'm guessing something like 1 in 5,000 to 10,000 rounds.
3. Now, what is the likelihood/odds that your weapon will malfunction at the very moment you will need it for SD?
4. And if you don't like those odds, why not carry 2 or even 3 BUG's?

I'm not a statistician or mathematician, but whatever the "odds" are when combining #'s 1, 2 & 3 above, has to be pretty high. So rather than buying and carrying another similar pistol JUST IN CASE my primary malfunctions in the unlikely event that I will need to use it for SD...well, I guess I'll just take my chances with "only" one .40c on me.

It's not just about BUG. I usually only carry one gun at a time. However, if I am forced to shoot someone, the gun I used will be in evidence for who knows how long. This way I have a gun with the same manual-of-arms that I'm familiar with waiting for me at home.

Mechanical problems aren't just about malfunctions that occur in the middle of a gunfight. What if the gun fails at the range and you have to send it to the factory or leave it with a gunsmith for a couple of weeks? Similar situation as I mentioned before.

If you take a training class and your gun fails, what do you do? If you brought a redundant BUG you can continue without missing a beat. If not, then time has to be spent trying to fix it or locate a loaner for you to use that you may or may not be familiar with.

On a lesser note, it also spreads wear and tear over different guns instead of one. Not a big issue since most firearms will outlast their owners, but something to consider.

Some people will say that's why they have different guns. I'd rather concentrate on performing well with one platform. This is why I'm trying to build up a collection of guns on the same platform.

 

[MotorCityGun]

If I were content playing the odds, I would not even carry one gun. Odds are, I'll never need one. Same thing I hear from some of my CHL students; "I'll only carry where it is dangerous." "I'll only carry in my car." "I'll only carry when I'm out after dark." I call this "concealed carry Russian roulette." If we knew when and how we'd need to be armed to survive, we'd simply avoid such places and situations altogether. I used to shoot lots of IPSC matches. Despite the fact that none of the targets ever shot back at me, Mr. Murphy rode on my shoulder to enough matches to convince me that failing to carry a BUG was equivalent to driving around without a spare tire. Do I ever expect to need my backup gun? No, I do not. However, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Question 4 was intended for your response.

 

[MotorCityGun]

It's not just about BUG. I usually only carry one gun at a time. However, if I am forced to shoot someone, the gun I used will be in evidence for who knows how long. This way I have a gun with the same manual-of-arms that I'm familiar with waiting for me at home.

Mechanical problems aren't just about malfunctions that occur in the middle of a gunfight. What if the gun fails at the range and you have to send it to the factory or leave it with a gunsmith for a couple of weeks? Similar situation as I mentioned before.

If you take a training class and your gun fails, what do you do? If you brought a redundant BUG you can continue without missing a beat. If not, then time has to be spent trying to fix it or locate a loaner for you to use that you may or may not be familiar with.

On a lesser note, it also spreads wear and tear over different guns instead of one. Not a big issue since most firearms will outlast their owners, but something to consider.

Some people will say that's why they have different guns. I'd rather concentrate on performing well with one platform. This is why I'm trying to build up a collection of guns on the same platform.

And WHAT IF an 9.0 earthquake occured, then a massive tsunami wiped out all of your possessions? Life's full of "what if's" so I guess you (not me) should have some extra pocket rockets stashed away somewhere. But like I said, I'll take my chances with one, very reliably proven, pistol

 

[38-44HD45]

Question 4 was intended for your response.

10-4. Happy to oblige.

 

[Rule 303]

A Lesson of Multiples,
My Son in Law is a Police Detective. Three years ago he had to shoot a man in the Line of Duty. He and another SWAT Officer shot at the same time, from different angles because of the man's offensive actions with a weapon. The Perp was DRT.

My Son in Law was issued a Glock Model 21 by his department.
All of his duty gear was for the Glock 21 and all of his concealment leather was for a Glock 21. His supervisor took the gun he fired and issued him a Glock 17 at the scene. He told my son in law that they had no more 21s to issue out.

I received a call, es muy pronto from my Son in Law and he told me the story of the shooting and ask if I had a Model 21 he could barrow. I told him I did not loan guns, but when I saw him in a couple of days I'd give him one of my Glock 21s.
My wife and I visited with him and my daughter a couple of days later and I gave him a Glock 21 and a bit of advice. Never have just one gun in the make and model that you carry. You might have to give it up and then you either have to buy one or have a father in law that has lots of them give you one. He still has his department issue 21 (he got it back a year later) and the 21 I gave him. He carries the Department Gun and the other sits in his safe, but if he is unfortunate engouh to have to use his department issue, he has another to fall back on.

The man my son in law shot had executed two men, down on their knees and shot to the back of the head, in an Armed Robbery that morning and was stupid enough to try to draw on my son in law. The perp was a member of a Mexican Prison Gang.

BTW-My son in law hit him three times with Gold Dots (dept issue) and the SWAT Officer hit him twice with TAP .223s in the side of the head. The Pathologist report stated that one of the gold dots traveled down the top of his right arm that was extended in front of him and hit him to the right side of his heart. The next two rounds hit his heart and the two .223 rounds destroyed his head and brain. The Pathologist said that any one of the rounds that hit the perp was not survivalalbe. My son in law was 24 feet from the perp when he fired.

Rule 303

 

[USAF385]

I don't know... the more guns you have/carry, the better the chance of a failure of some sort.

 

[Sebago Son]

The need for a BUG in the (un)likelihood that your primary one might fail in a SD incident, seems to be a bit of stretch for me. Although I can't provide actual statistics or data, I'm wondering if being armed with two of the same weapon is overkill (pun intended). I have a few questions:.....

By your questions it's pretty easy to conclude that you missed my point.

 

[MotorCityGun]

By your questions it's pretty easy to conclude that you missed my point.

Ditto

 

[Knightrider03m]

I don't have multiple of the same gun (unless its a full size vs compact of the same gun). However, I don't have two sigmas, two M&P9cs, etc. Why spend the money on that when I can guy another gun.

Those are my carry guns with my snub nose as a BUG to all of the other guns. If one gun fails on me or get taken by the police after a SD shooting, I have other guns to fill the spot.

As for carrying a BUG, it depends on how you truly view the use of a BUG. I use my BUG for two reasons, one, which is the main reason is my BUG being in my pocket offers an advantage on drawing. If i'm in a bad area, I can just put my hands in my pocket and have it on my gun vs me walking down the street with my main gun exposed and my hand on it. If something happens, it offers a faster draw. I also carry a BUG just in case my main gun is taken out of service or dropped some were, although the odds of that is rare, it can still happen.

 

[photoman]

I'm a big believer in redundancy.... So much so that I have multiples of exact configurations for all my "serious" guns. Anyone else here do the same?

Yes. I'm also a believer in double redundancy.

I'm just back from a four day camping trip and carried two 642's loaded with 158gr LHP+P's.

 

[MotorCityGun]

Those are my carry guns with my snub nose as a BUG to all of the other guns. If one gun fails on me or get taken by the police after a SD shooting, I have other guns to fill the spot.

As for carrying a BUG, it depends on how you truly view the use of a BUG. I use my BUG for two reasons, one, which is the main reason is my BUG being in my pocket offers an advantage on drawing. If i'm in a bad area, I can just put my hands in my pocket and have it on my gun vs me walking down the street with my main gun exposed and my hand on it. If something happens, it offers a faster draw. I also carry a BUG just in case my main gun is taken out of service or dropped some were, although the odds of that is rare, it can still happen.

Marcus, more power to you and the other posters who've decided to go "redundant". All I've been saying is that REALISTICALLY speaking, unless you are LE, it's doubtful that you will ever need a BUG, let alone more than 5 rounds. (Man, I know I'm going to hear it from all you BUG users, be gentle. And, yeah, yeah, I carry more than 5 rounds on me when I CCW, only because 11 rounds conveniently fits into my pistol. Will I ever need all 11 rounds?; statistically/practically speaking, even given all of the "what if's" ad infinitum...highly unlikely).

Again, whatever you feel you need to protect yourself, cool. But I've got to ask, if you are in or know you are going into a "bad area", why not put your primary in your pocket? And, if you feel that you cannot access and draw your primary when you will need it, practice, practice...well, you get the idea.

Let me ask this another way, do you have two fire extinguishers in the same location in your house, two new spare tires in the trunk of each your vehicles, or two cell phones on you? (assuming you're not a doctor or drug dealer ) If not, why not?