Was I out of line?

[RussellD]

you may have deprived the store owner from making a low ball purchase and turning a quick buck...I would choose another location to do business with.

 

[scooter123]

I can see the owner's side, BUT when it comes to buying used guns from people, gun shops should have a big jar of vaseline on the counter to make it easier on the customer. I know they have to make a profit, but buying a shotgun for $400, then selling it for $1000 is a scumbag move. What do they do to make the gun ready for sale? Make a log entry, put a tag on it, and put it in the case. I once bought a brand new Glock 26 for $525 and only owned it two weeks before bringing it back to the shop for a sale. I had put brand new Trijicon's on it, and the gun had exactly 100 rounds through it. He offered me $100. I asked him why it was so low, and he said 'I have to make a profit". He would have given me my $100, slapped a $500 tag on it, and made $400 in about 30 seconds. I have walked out after a guy got low-balled on a sale and offered him cash on the spot, though I wouldn't do it in the man's shop.

You need to look at it from the gun shops perspective. Yeah, he may turn over that shotgun for 1000 dollars. HOWEVER, it may take that gun shop 3 or 4 YEARS to turn that shotgun over. During that time he has 400 dollars tied up in a high value item that he has to pay taxes, storage costs, and insurance coverage coverage for. After 3 or 4 years that supposed 600 dollar profit may actually be break even or a loss. It's a gamble every dealer makes when he takes in a used gun. Before the internet, a dealer who was too generous usually ended up going out of business, today with the internet the smart ones can get wider coverage for a high dollar item and hopefully turn it quickly enough to make a profit. However, it's still a gamble and it's his money he's betting.

Personally, it's been my experience that dealers in items like this will usually only offer about 35-40% of the market value for a used item. It's one reason why I don't do trade-ins, you just get hosed. I've found it's much better to either just keep my older items or put in the effort to find someone who wants it.

 

[kbm6893]

You need to look at it from the gun shops perspective. Yeah, he may turn over that shotgun for 1000 dollars. HOWEVER, it may take that gun shop 3 or 4 YEARS to turn that shotgun over. During that time he has 400 dollars tied up in a high value item that he has to pay taxes, storage costs, and insurance coverage coverage for. After 3 or 4 years that supposed 600 dollar profit may actually be break even or a loss. It's a gamble every dealer makes when he takes in a used gun. Before the internet, a dealer who was too generous usually ended up going out of business, today with the internet the smart ones can get wider coverage for a high dollar item and hopefully turn it quickly enough to make a profit. However, it's still a gamble and it's his money he's betting.

Personally, it's been my experience that dealers in items like this will usually only offer about 35-40% of the market value for a used item. It's one reason why I don't do trade-ins, you just get hosed. I've found it's much better to either just keep my older items or put in the effort to find someone who wants it.

How do his taxes and storage go up? He doesn't have to feed the thing! His business insurance covers everything in the store, so whether there are 50 guns or 51 doesn't change his premiums or his coverage. The gun is sitting on a rack. And even if he waits 3 years to get his $600, it's not costing him any effort to make it.

 

[Camster]

Like many businesses,the money is in the used stuff,and for most goods,dealers of any kind need to double their money.The markup on new guns is probably one of the tightest of any business.
Buying a used gun for 400 and hoping to sell for a 1000,really isn't that far out of the realm.A seller is always free to walk.
A gunstore is the dealer's place of business,with all of the expenses,salaries,insurance, and bad days when nothing happens.
It's not an impromptu auction site-it's his sacred territory,including the parking lot.One must remain silent,step back,not interfere or comment at all...though the temptation may be strong at times.
That said,for the dealer to slap you with a $20 penalty on a deal already made,is wrong.Doubtful that I would return there.

 

[AKsRule]

If you own or represent the Owner of a store you make the rules - period.

If you want to do business with a store more than once , play by their
rules.

 

[ditrina]

Expenses

I can see the owner's side, BUT when it comes to buying used guns from people, gun shops should have a big jar of vaseline on the counter to make it easier on the customer. I know they have to make a profit, but buying a shotgun for $400, then selling it for $1000 is a scumbag move. ( Are you buying or selling? what about the NIB Pre 27 that is inherited.. with no investment that is just sold at the gun show for $1400.00??)What do they do to make the gun ready for sale? Make a log entry, put a tag on it, and put it in the case.

And pay rent/mortagage,insurance,utilities, light, heat, airconditioning,phone,assorted state, county and Federal license fees, supplies from pencils to paper,copiers toner,landscaping, security system and monitoring, Oh yeah the employees... Wages, Social Security, Unemployment, Medical vacation pay... Holiday pay, when the store closes ( Christmas.. Fourth of July, Easter, and on and on and on..


I once bought a brand new Glock 26 for $525 and only owned it two weeks before bringing it back to the shop for a sale. I had put brand new Trijicon's on it, and the gun had exactly 100 rounds through it. He offered me $100. I asked him why it was so low, and he said 'I have to make a profit". He would have given me my $100, slapped a $500 tag on it, and made $400 in about 30 seconds. I have walked out after a guy got low-balled on a sale and offered him cash on the spot, though I wouldn't do it in the man's shop.

Now I agree $100 is an insult.. but that was his offer and you did right by not selling.. as you discribe the gun his offer should have been around $300.0 or so... Remember.. once it leaves the shop it a USED gun.. with one round through it or 100.. and the dealer cannot buy a used gun for only a bit less than he can buy wholesale new.. That $525 Glock retail probably cost him around $430.00 plus shipping etc..

Thank you for allowing me to join in the discussion..

 

[f2]

I've found throughout the years that it's best to establish a good relationship with your ffl / lgs. They'll be the first to handle your incoming firearm and if you do business with then long enough, they will recognize your name on the invoice and treat said firearm with you in mind, good or bad. You will then pick it up, pay the fees, fill out the forms, and sometimes you'll see the exact same gun in their rack or glass case and he'll say nothing about you not supporting his store, or he'll say something, and all he gets is a lousy $20 for the ffl fee, but he'll shoot the **** with you just the same, if you get along.

 

[kbm6893]

Now I agree $100 is an insult.. but that was his offer and you did right by not selling.. as you discribe the gun his offer should have been around $300.0 or so... Remember.. once it leaves the shop it a USED gun.. with one round through it or 100.. and the dealer cannot buy a used gun for only a bit less than he can buy wholesale new.. That $525 Glock retail probably cost him around $430.00 plus shipping etc..

Thank you for allowing me to join in the discussion..

So he made $90 on the new gun, and would have made "400 easily on the used one if I was dumb enough to sell, all without getting out of his chair If his business is that slow, he won't have many employees, if any at all. His insurance is the same whether he has one less used gun or not. Look, I'm not begrudging a businessman his right to earn a living, but lowball offers do not help his business, they hurt it, because he loses the future business of anybody he attempts to screw over. The same shop that offered me the $100 for the Glock once tried to give me TWENTY BUCKS for a ruger SP101 revolver because "nobody wants revolvers anymore". he would have sold that gun for 15 times what he offered me for it. There is no justification in giving a man $400 then charging $1000 to the next guy who walks in. Face it, MANY people selling a gun are in dire financial straights, and he knows it. And I try to support my lgs, but when I can get a gun for $150 less buying over the internet, I gotta do what i gotta do. I factor in shipping and transfer fees, and if my guy has the same gun for $50 more, I'd probably buy from him to save me the hassle.

 

[Joe in SC]

I've read and re-read your comments. In my opinion your comments were harmless enough. I'd tell the store owner to go urinate up a rope.
This is still America and if he took offense in your simple comments he takes himself much too seriously. Too many gun store personel think they know everything about everything just because they stayed at the "holiday inn express" the night before, if you know what I mean. Just because they own or work there don't make them infalible or experts.

I'd find another dealer to do business with unless his prices were low enough to make up for his misery. Then I would keep it strictly business with him. You're a potential customer and that should at the very least get you treated with respect and a smile. Give your business to someone else.

 

[GKC]

The store owner could lose his license if he permitted a private transaction in his store.

Are you basing your comment on your state law?

The reason I ask is because I was talking to my local gun shop owner the other day about trading versus selling, and that I didn't like to sell FTF to private parties (even though I could make more money) because of having to keep the paperwork, etc. (It's not required in Texas, but the few times I have done a FTF sale, I have filled out and kept a bill of sale, and required the buyer to give me a copy of their driver's license. That is MY preference.)

He said that if I ever wanted to do a private sale, I could have the buyer come into the store, and he would do the transfer (for a fee, of course) from me to the buyer, so the gun would be "out of my name" so to speak. I am sure he wouldn't have offered if there was any concern with losing his license (unless he really doesn't know the law.)

 

[buck460XVR]

You handled it WRONG...on many counts.

Yep. Live and learn.

 

[kennyb]

I think it was just a misunderstanding. I would not have offerd a price to the seller while the owner was dealing with him in his store. It was just in conversation, that I made the comment to the seller. I have been in that store several times. I understand where he is coming from. I will be back again and most likely buy something. Most of my guns are purchased at local stores. I was just venting last night. It's all good.

were it me....i would return and apologize...several times

 

[Tunachaser]

I walked into my local shop one day with a shotgun, and a customer stopped me before I got to the counter and asked me if I was selling the gun, it surprised me so I simply said no, I should have said not to you. But I did go up to the counter and asked Niel if he wanted it.

 

[Camster]

I've found throughout the years that it's best to establish a good relationship with your ffl / lgs. They'll be the first to handle your incoming firearm and if you do business with then long enough, they will recognize your name on the invoice and treat said firearm with you in mind, good or bad. You will then pick it up, pay the fees, fill out the forms, and sometimes you'll see the exact same gun in their rack or glass case and he'll say nothing about you not supporting his store, or he'll say something, and all he gets is a lousy $20 for the ffl fee, but he'll shoot the **** with you just the same, if you get along.

Two points: More and more dealers are rebelling about doing transfers of brand new guns that they could be selling themselves,and are charging more than a basic transfer fee for same.I can't say that I blame them-few can exist on transfer fees.(I get special consideration at my shop for anything,but most pay closer to 50 for a basic used gun transfer,especially a handgun.)
Secondly,virtually everyone seems to have an inclination to haggle,try to chisel dealers even if their goods are fairly priced-call it ego,testosterone,being a tough guy,whatever.However,if that same dealer gets in a nice gun,who does he think to call about it?-The guy that he knows will break his chops or the guy that just says;"Great!I'll take it".If you're dealing with decent guys that you want to have a relationship with,a box of donuts,etc.occasionally doesn't hurt either.
From my dealer's website:
Incoming Transfers:
Used Handgun: $55.00
Used Long Gun: $45.00
Any New Firearm: $100.00
We are confident that we can provide you with pricing that, in most cases, eliminates the need for you to purchase a new firearm elsewhere. We are willing to work with you to achieve an amicable deal.

Outgoing Transfers:
Handgun: $55.00 transfer fee + $40.00 Overnight Shipping + Insurance Fees
Long Gun: $45.00 transfer fee + $20.00 Ground Shipping + Insurance Fees
Please have an insurance value in mind when preparing to transfer a firearm.

 

[Sebago Son]

Somebody needs a lesson in mannors...

Extremely bad form. If you pulled that stunt in my shop you'd get thrown out on your ear if you were lucky there wouldn't be a boot up your behind...

 

[remat457]

To the OP I would explain that you didn't intend the comment that way and apologize if you wish to continue to be a customer.

I do understand the shop though. They pay to have that storefront and it is not the same as a gun show. The customer is there to work with them. The item is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Doesn't really matter how much they are "in it" for. If it isn't worth the price to you, don't buy it and find a better deal!


At my LGS - if you intervene in a transaction they probably would kick you out on the spot and tell you not to come back. Now, if the deal falls through they probably would not care what you do as long as it is handled elsewhere (and of course legally).

 

[Joe Kent]

It most certainly is bad form to make an offer to buy from another customer in someone's gunshop. The shop I worked in would have kicked you out and been done with you if you stepped between the owner and a deal.

 

[Avery11]

Extremely bad form. If you pulled that stunt in my shop you'd get thrown out on your ear if you were lucky there wouldn't be a boot up your behind...

What if he didn't know any better? How about pulling the guy aside and explaining how it works? You may get a grateful and loyal customer and he will learn a lesson.

This kind of thing is keeping alot of owners from gaining new clients. New buyers are intimidated to go into a store for fear they will get pushed around or snapped at if they make a wrong move. There are alot of unwritten rules and an extensive list of do's and dont's that lots of folks don't instinctively understand. For the record, I'm not one of them; just a volunteer advocate.

Or do you all prefer the way of humiliating someone? Try a little manners if that is in fact what you expect from the customer.

I hear an aweful lot of tough talk from GSO's on here (not all) who may be better served remembering that your LGS is no longer the only way to buy and sell - that's just the way it is. Don't do business with a chip on your shoulder.

I'm not picking sides...he definitely made a mistake but it sounds like that's exactly what it was. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Proper GS "form" is to deal with the owner and his or her employees ONLY. But it goes both ways. How much in future sales from the offending customer and all his referrals are you willing to give up just to make an example of him? How is tossing him out doing YOU any good at all? How much damage will he do to you that you'll never realize by telling everyone he knows about his bad experience with a rude shop owner? You don't get to go around and tell your side of it.

Mark, do apologize but you certainly don't have to kiss anyone's butt over this.

Please keep in mind that I'm talking about the OP's specific case where alot of naive but innocent customers find themselves.

I am in no way promoting tolerance of deliberate cherry-pickers. They deserve to go out the side through the saloon doors!

Cheers

 

[Sebago Son]

What if he didn't know any better?...

How could you not know any better? One would have to be completely ignorant of any common courtesy and unappreciative of the Gunshop Owner's place of business.

 

[ladder13]

No matter how tempting it may be, you NEVER step between the shop owner and a customer. I've been in shops where great deals for the owner, poor deals for the seller, went down. The seller was satisfied, and I didn't say a word.