New Female on board needs a lot of help!

[sunnyskyez]

Hi,
Ive already stopped at the "Hello" area, I thank you for all of the warm Hello's. Now I have some questions for you males and females who have the knowledge & experience.

First let me say, Ive just started thinking about self defense and a handgun. Ive had absolutely "NO" experience with any "real" gun, other than a BB- gun. I know nothing about guns, ammunition, grams of the bullets, recoil, or any of these model numbers. I am very serious about this, have been studying up on safety. Once I learn how to properly handle my gun, I will probably only go to a shooting range a few times a year to keep myself familiar with my handgun. When you reply, please speak in layman terms as Im still not caught up with all of the new lingo. Remember I know nothing.

I do know from my research over the past 3 weeks, I want a Revolver, Double Action, easy Recoil, easily concealed, and a Smith & Wesson, around $500ish is my budget. I have weak hands, wrists, & arthritis in my trigger finger at the first joint, (figures, some days it doesn't hurt at all). I plan on learning how to shoot with my left hand as well. As a kid I would bat both left and right handed playing softball. I guess the easy Recoil is a big deal as well as easy trigger pull. Of all the revolvers Ive researched, I keep coming back to the Bodyguard .38, I like the look, (yeah that's pure female) the laser sight and Ive watched some YouTube vids on its performance. I don't need a pink gun, or shinny gun.

I keep going back to the recoil, I don't want something that will break my wrists but I just don't understand enough about the size of ammo that causes such recoil. Of course If I do have to use it in self defense, I don't want the person to get up and laugh at me. Ya know what I mean?

Ive also read that perhaps a lightweight gun such as the J-frames may have more recoil than the heavier frames. Is that true? Is there a ammunitions list of what the number of grams and power behind them are, what types of guns they are used in?

One more thought, I know you need to go and try these out to get the right fit, however in my area there are no rentals and only one range is at a gun shop 24 miles away from me. That one range said if I buy the gun from them they will give me a lesson on shooting.

So these are just some of the questions I have right now, and hopefully someone will be able to help me. I don't take this lightly, and I feel Ive come to the right place for well experienced advice. I will thank you all in advance for any and all advice you can share with me. Sorry to take up so much time with a lot of verbage.

Have a nice weekend. Sunny

 

[OKFC05]

I'd suggest you start with an NRA Basic Pistol course, even if you have to drive 150 miles to it. The course should have several different handguns to try, and you will get the "gun lingo" to discuss such things.

Then I'd try several different guns, again even if you have to drive 100 miles to do it.

Then pick out the kind of gun you want. Trying to get us to pick out your gun for you is worse than getting us to pick out your clothes for you.

I'm an NRA and CCL instructor, and am aware of the pitfalls of buying a gun before you learn to shoot and begin to understand your own capabilities and desires. Inexperienced ladies want the cute little gun, and the guy wants them to have a belchfire blaster semi-auto.
You need something you like and will shoot at least monthly, AFTER you develop basic skills.
How would your driving skills be if you never took a class, somebody else picked out your car, and you only drove twice a year?

NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training

 

[Big Cholla]

Sunny: Good on you for wanting to become proficient in being able to defend yourself! Given your stated problem of being recoil sensitive because of arthritis in hands and wrists I am going to go against the 'usual' advice of "get a lightweight 38 special and don't look back" and tell you to NOT buy a handgun until you have checked out and fired a S&W Model 651 in 22 WMR. Yes, it is NOT a 38, but I say that you first need to be confident in your ability to deliver second, third and even fourth shots accurately and quickly. The 22 WMR HP is very powerful and devastating to living tissue. All you have to do is to put two or three shots in nearly the right place when required. This handgun is 100% steel giving it sufficient weight to reduce the apparent recoil (which you need). It is not so heavy that you couldn't get real use to carrying it concealed in a holster or in a purse. There are several recoil reducing grips available for it. A gunsmith could 'fit' a .22LR cylinder to this handgun for very economical practice. The .22LR is not going to be real accurate, but it will work for practice out to 12 or 15 ft. And this handgun is in your price range. This handgun is single action/double action. You don't have to use the single action ever if you elect not to. The action could be tuned for the lightest trigger pull possible with reliable ignition.

My recommendation is to get one with a 3" barrel, get a .22LR cylinder, get professional training and practice once a month thereafter. You will do just fine. A recent case has a lady that was able to kill her attacker/home invader with a .22 WMR.

As an old instructor I can tell you that women in general quickly make good to great shooters because they 'listen' to their coach, they already have great eye/hand coordination, they don't have the 'John Wayne' syndrome and they know the poor gun handling they have seen on TV and movies was for 'dramatics' not accuracy. Good Luck, and keep us informed of your progress. ........ Big Cholla

 

[nebmike]

How would your driving skills be if you never took a class, somebody else picked out your car, and you only drove twice a year?

NRAInstructors.org - Portal for NRA certified Instructors, NRA Education and Training

...and one of those two times was a high-speed pursuit at speeds exceeding 100mph where you're chasing a guy who just kidnapped your 6 month old baby.

OKC makes some good points. I admire the seriousness with which you are attempting to go about arming yourself. I cant agree enough with the notion that you 'really' should find somewhere to handle (and preferably shoot) several different types and calibers of handguns.

However, if that is simply 'not' an option for you, the S&W Bodyguard .38 is probably a decent choice. The only thing that really concerns me about that (or any double-action) for you is your mention of arthritis in your trigger finger. Double-action revolvers like the Bodyguard (or any S&W revolver) will have a much more stiff trigger pull than other types of handguns. Could prove to be problematic for you.

Smaller and lighter handguns will typically cause the shooter to feel more recoil than a larger/heavier gun of the same caliber when shooting the same ammo. Just a matter of physics. In a .38 special, standard pressure ammunition is probably where you want to start - to see how you can (or can learn to...) handle the recoil. Then maybe try some .38+P ammo (which is higher pressure / more 'power') to see if how you like (and can handle) a little more recoil.

Dont get too wrapped up in bullet weight (which is what I assume you're referring to by the use of the term "grams" -- bullets are actually measured in, "grains"). Typical .38 loads can be had with bullets weighing anywhere from 110 to 158 grains (with some specialty ammo outside of that range). The same holds true for both standard .38's as well as .38+P ammo. As far as recoil, you wont find a whole lot of difference depending on bullet weight -- but will see a difference when switching up to +P loads (regardless of bullet weight).

Now, as far as self-defense ammo -- you'll get as many opinions as there are members on this board. My recommendation is to stick with name-brands (Winchester, Federal, Corbon, Remington, etc.) and if its legal in your area, use hollow points. Beyond that, the choice (and most peoples opinion) is mostly academic and often based on personal bias rather than real-world data of any kind.

That being said, my personal preference for a self-defense load in a standard pressure .38 is the Federal 125gr "Nyclad" and for a +P, I like the Speer Gold Dot 135gr+P.

Hopefully that helps some... and dont be afraid to ask anything that comes to mind. The folks around here are a pretty decent bunch.

Take care and good luck!!!

 

[BobR1]

The Bodyguard is a very good choice. Four versions:
Model 49 Blued Steel
Model 649 Stainless Steel
Model 438 Airweight Black Finish
Model 638 Airweight Stainless Look Finish

The Airweight Model 438/638 is much lighter at around 15 Oz empty. This is a good weight for carrying in your purse, etc.
It will recoil harder than a heavier all steel model. The Bodyguard series have a shrouded ( non snag) hammer that still can be manually cocked.
How you plan to carry the handgun makes a great deal of difference. I can tolerate much more weight in a holster carried handgun than I can a pocket carried one.
If you are going to leave it in your vehicle and in your home, and do not plan to carry it concealed, by all means go with an all steel gun. Infact If you do not plan to carry it concealed I would recomend going up a size to a K frame such as a 4 Inch barrel Model 64, 65, or 66. The K Frame will be easier to shoot accurately, and recoil much less.

Ammo: Most of the Premium Carry ammo will recoil fairly briskly. The wording 38 Special +P denotes heavier loaded ammunition.
Common 38 Special Bullet weights are:
110 Grain, 125 Grain, 130 Grain, 140 Grain, 150, Grain, and 158 Grain. Normally the heavier the weight, the more recoil they will produce. That is not always the case however. Most 110 and 125 grain ammunition will probably be loaded heavy for personal defense. The 130 grain is pretty common plinking weight ammunition. The 130 grain will probably be your best bet in practice ammunition.

I have owned the Model 49, a couple 649's, and currently a 638. I normally carry the 638 in my vest or jacket inside pocket. I carry a Model 64 a lot also in a belt holster.
I normally recommend a K frame 38 with 4" barrel for gals who are not gun friendly, who want a gun for the car and or home. If you are looking for a CCW handgun the 638 is hard to beat. It comes in a 2.5" barrel Model also. Your dealer may have to order it. The longer barrel should be a little more accurate.

Bob

 

[PDL]

Welcome to the forum.

Take a look at the Cornered Cat site. It's directed towards women and can be a useful starting point.
Cornered Cat

Also depending on where you are, the NRA offers course aimed at women shooters as well.

Good luck, and don't get overwhelmed with the expert opinions.

 

[scooter123]

Sunny, Big Cholla has given you excellent advice. I'm a 56 year old, 175 lbs. male, who has spent most of his life working with his hands, so I have superb hand and wrist strength. However, many years of cranking the handles on a milling machine and even more years of doing design work on a computer has left me with wrists that cannot tolerate the recoil of a featherweight revolver shooting the 38 spl.. Because of this I've limited my revolver shooting to choices that you would probably find massively heavy and too large to conceal. The plain truth is the Weight does reduce Recoil and you won't have Physics on your side if you choose a small, lightweight revolver in a heavier caliber.

Another factor that is NOT in your favor is that the small revolvers such as the bodyguard you favor have a rather heavy trigger. Shooting a double action revolver well requires many many hours of practice. When I first started shooting revolvers it took me 2 months of practice at the range Twice a week. In addition to that I spent about an hour each day dryfiring the gun to strengthen my trigger finger and develop a good smooth trigger stroke. With your arthritis, I suspect that you won't be able to tolerate that regimen. BTW, if you don't have any arthritis in your left hand, you should probably consider shooting left handed and train using that hand. Another option is to learn to shoot using the middle finger, while it feels very odd to most handgun shooters there have been proponents of this method for many years. BTW, the thought behind middle finger usage is because people can point their index fingers very naturally, so using the middle finger allows you to use the index finger as a pointing guide.

Point is, IMO you really need to find a firearms instructor with a selection of guns you can try out. While it may seem a bit costly initially, you'll save the money you may waste in purchasing a gun you can't use. Personally, I suspect that once you do that, you'll find what actually works for you is not even on your list at the moment.

 

[Bat Guano]

"I know nothing"--music to an instructor's ears. All too often we get to work with people who "know it all". YOU we can help...

Second the NRA course. Also, Quigley Paxton's book "Armed and Female" is a good book, period.

Handle all the guns you can. Cruising a gun show or two is like going to car dealers but more fun.

I agree with the conventional wisdom here on J and K frames. If I had to suggest ONE gun that is never a mistake, it would be a Model 15 4" .38 Special. As Goldilocks observed, some things are "just right". Grips are not an issue as you can change them easily and often. Even as a beginner's gun it's a good one, and you really never outgrow it either. My #2 suggestion would be a Model 60 3" .38 Special.

Actual shooting is simple: just align the sights on whatever you want to hit and cause the hammer to fall without disturbing the alignment. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. (I said it was SIMPLE; I didn't say it was EASY as I still have to work at it just like everyone else. We just get better at it over the years...)

You will find a lot of help here if you make some effort and just ask. Good luck. Make sure to have fun.

 

[Harry58]

Always remember that safety is your 1st priority. If you do nothing else, learn & practice the rules for safe gun handling all the time.

As others have stated, it is important to try a few guns out at the range before you decide even if you have to drive 100 miles. It will be worth it in the long run. I would also suggest 38 special. Start with the 130 grain fMJ target ammo. These are loaded pretty weak. The recoil isn't bad, & it should not hurt you. If you like it, then, you can try some defensive ammo like the 125 & 158 grain hollow points. I would not choose to go with 22 caliber unless you really can't stand to shoot the 38 special. I would also stick with ammo made by the big three (Remington, Winchester, or Federal). Don't buy the off-brand or lesser known brands.

If the gun is for home or car, I suggest an all steel K frame with a four inch barrel like a model 64. If it is for concealed carry, I would try the all steel J frame with a three inch barrel like a model 60. They also make the model 60 & 640 with a 2.125 inch barrel in case the three inch model is too big for you to conceal. Keep in mind that while you are learning you will tend to shoot more accurately with a longer barrel.

You can also try the lighter weight J frames, but the felt recoil will be worse with them.

Most (maybe all) the S&W double action revolvers are not going to have an easy trigger pull. It will take practice to shoot well. But, there are a lot of good people on this forum who will help with advice as you progress.

 

[Shadow1006]

She might do well with the "The Governor" 410ga/45ACP/45Colt revolver.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

She might do well with the "The Governor" 410ga/45ACP/45Colt revolver.

Yeah, so will her doctor, if she ever gets one.

As far as advice on specific choices, Big Cholla gave VERY good advice. It is also possible that a 49 or 649 or a used Model 10 will work very well, with standard-pressure ammo. This is hard to tell for sure without firing the guns involved. Without even getting your hands on one, it can be nearly impossible.

Getting good instruction should be your first priority. From there, you may gain the experience to know what works best for you. Also, be warned that the correct grips (for you) are just about the most important consideration in choosing a gun, and often one of the least discussed, mostly because no one on this forum knows your hand size, and many (including me) know the right answers only for their own hand sizes, anyway. A GOOD instructor can usually tell what is a good set of grips for you if they are on the gun and your hand is on the gun. BTW, while a 4" Model 15 is almost never a mistake for a guy, it certainly can be for a lady. The Model 15 has a square grip frame that limits the choice of grips that can fit it to those which may be too large for some women.

Re-read Big Cholla's and scooter's posts.

Good luck!

 

[photoman]

If you do end up with one of the smaller, five shot revolvers (J frame), be sure to use a full size (three finger) rubber grip and only shoot 148gr target wadcutter ammo. The combination of the larger grip and soft shooting ammo makes the steel J frames a real pleasure to shoot and the Airweights tolerable.

Another thing to consider, if you end up with a J frame, is install one of the new Apex Tactical spring kits then dry fire the gun 500 or so times. You will find it will be much easier to operate the gun.

 

[BikerRN]

Welcome to the forum.

Take a look at the Cornered Cat site. It's directed towards women and can be a useful starting point.
Cornered Cat

Also depending on where you are, the NRA offers course aimed at women shooters as well.

Good luck, and don't get overwhelmed with the expert opinions.

I second PDL's advice.

Cathy Jackson has a great website with lots of good information.

Biker

 

[sunnyskyez]

Wow, I knew I came to the right place. I loved all of your suggestions and will keep each close to my heart. "OKFC"-I did find a nice selection of NRA basic shooting courses and they are within 18 miles of me. Sweet! One even has a woman instructor, double sweet! Thats no reflection to you males out there but I need to see how a woman can handle a gun.

I just cant thank each of you enough. I promiss to come back and tell you what Ive decided to get, under the heading New Female on board.

Have a great weekend. sunny

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Hi Sunny:

Lots of good advice and ideas so far. I have arthritis and injuries to both hands and wrists, so I have had to research this issue myself. As you know, you will have good days and bad. My bad day gun is a S&W Model 432 in .32 H&R Magnum caliber. I have laser grips on it which helps with aiming - especially with the left hand. You can load and shoot lower recoiling rounds like the .32 Long - especially with wadcutter bullets and still have an effective weapon that won't beat your hands up. The Model 432 has a concealed hammer, and the Model 431 has an exposed hammer that you could cock, if you have the time, to give you an easier trigger pull. Also, if you are planning on using a handgun for home defense, i.e. a nightstand gun, you may want to think about a larger K-frame pistol as they are larger and heavier than the J-frame and could possibly be easier for you to shoot. If possible, I'd recommend trying to buy the older model pistols as a gunsmith can, in my experience, give you a better trigger job on the older pistols as compared to the more modern versions. By the way, my late Mom's bedside gun was a Model 64 heavy barrel in .38 Special. She was a little woman - well under 5' tall, and she impressed the local police department instructor at the class they hold for the "little old ladies" to teach basic firearms safety and handling.

Best of luck,

Dave

 

[cmort666]

I'd suggest you start with an NRA Basic Pistol course

This.

Guns aren't cheap, not even "cheap" guns. Don't buy something through ignorance which doesn't fit your needs.

Self-defense is serious business that deserves serious investigation. Here in Ohio, you'd have to take the equivalent of the NRA Basic Pistol course in order to get your license anyway.

Taking the Basic Pistol course will give you the fundamentals that you'll need in order to pick an appropriate firearm and to safely use it. It'll also inoculate you against the tons of B.S. that the ignorant will try to sell you about firearms and self-defense.

As important as knowing your firearm is knowing your local laws regarding firearms and self-defense. The NRA and your state firearms advocacy group should help you avoid the nonsense.

 

[J.P.60]

1. As others have said, take an NRA basic course... and borrow a revolver for the course... a friend or someone at the range are your most likely candidates... maybe even the shop/range owner - if he believes you are likely to buy from him/her.

2. Do not buy any gun without being able to shoot it. The same caliber means very little as each gun reacts differently based upon a number of factors.

3. Once you buy your gun, get someone competent to help you "learn" the ins and outs of that gun and proper methods of shooting.

4. Practice, practice, practice until you become a competent shooter.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Here is new holster just for the Ladies. Interesting concept...

Flashbang Women?s Holster

YouTube - ‪Flashbang bra holster demo, sexy, fast, and practical.‬‏

 

[therevjay]

NRA course=good advice. As far as a gun go's, if you've decided you want a DA revolver forget about "Airweights" or "Airlites." Steel=weight, weight=less felt recoil=less pain to arthritic fingers.

 

[Strato]

Here is new holster just for the Ladies. Interesting concept...

Flashbang Women?s Holster

YouTube - ‪Flashbang bra holster demo, sexy, fast, and practical.‬‏

Oh thanks alot. Now every time I see a woman raise her shirt I'm thinking about getting shot