The pharmacist in Oklahoma City who shot at two masked gunmen trying to rob him was just convicted of first degree murder. I wonder how many people now, will be afraid to defend themselves when threatened by armed criminals?
Phamacist convicted: 1st degree muder.
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curtmini14
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must be a little more to it whats up.i am not afraid are you.
Alpo
Member
I did a search on "oklahoma city pharmacist murder" and got several news stories. It appears that he was not charged with murder for defending himself against the robbers. He was charged with murder because, after he had stopped the robbery, and one of the robbers had run off, he walked over to the wounded robber that was lying on the floor and emptied his gun into him.
They said that went beyond "self defense".
They said that went beyond "self defense".
David LaPell
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Yes the proverbial putting a cap in his, well you get the rest, goes above and beyond the call of self defense. Once they're down, and surrendered, you can't just continue to pump bullets into them. That's why he got a murder charge. As far as self defense, umm no, it won't bother me.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
I would concurr in that assessment.
I watched the store security video tape that was shown at the trial.
The pharmacist started with a "Judge" revolver and shot twice at the two robbers at less than 10 feet, hitting one in the forehead with buckshot, dropping him.
He ran out of the store and emptied the revolver at the fleeing robber, missing everything, including the two bystanders in the street.
He then returned into the store, walked past the fallen robber who was out of sight behind a counter, opened a drawer to get a .380, walked back to the fallen robber, and shot five shots from right over him.
IMHO, that tape pretty much told the story; the story he told newspapers and police was wildly different, claiming he had both guns at once, and was firing wih both hands. He was not put on the stand at trial.
The other robber pled guilty to murder, since someone died during his armed robbery.
The pharmacist started with a "Judge" revolver and shot twice at the two robbers at less than 10 feet, hitting one in the forehead with buckshot, dropping him.
He ran out of the store and emptied the revolver at the fleeing robber, missing everything, including the two bystanders in the street.
He then returned into the store, walked past the fallen robber who was out of sight behind a counter, opened a drawer to get a .380, walked back to the fallen robber, and shot five shots from right over him.
IMHO, that tape pretty much told the story; the story he told newspapers and police was wildly different, claiming he had both guns at once, and was firing wih both hands. He was not put on the stand at trial.
The other robber pled guilty to murder, since someone died during his armed robbery.
venomballistics
Member
...the frosting on the cake was probably when the Pharmacist said, "Take two aspirins and call me in the morning" after the last shot.
more to the (hollow) point "take two of these and DONT call me in the morning"
NFrameFred
Member
Will Carry
Member
I would appeal and plead temporary insanity plus get a better lawyer. Of course "I" wouldn't have done what he did and I wouldn't use a "Judge" for self defense either. The Judge is not a good shotgun and not a good revolver yet everyone who owns one loves it. Probably because they have never gotten in to a gun fight with one.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
???
??? What would a "better" lawyer have done differently??????? BTW you cannot change your plea on appeal
sigp220.45
US Veteran
The shooting is shown from three angles here:
LiveLeak.com - Raw Surveillance; Pharmacist Shoots Armed Robber, Was Charged With Murder
Nothing graphic, but you can see why the jury came to the conclusion it did.
I suppose he could have made a case that the downed robber still posed a threat, but the nonchalant way he strolled past him on the way to get his second gun makes that a little hard to believe.
He would have been fine if he had stayed in the store and called the cops after shooting the first guy.
LiveLeak.com - Raw Surveillance; Pharmacist Shoots Armed Robber, Was Charged With Murder
Nothing graphic, but you can see why the jury came to the conclusion it did.
I suppose he could have made a case that the downed robber still posed a threat, but the nonchalant way he strolled past him on the way to get his second gun makes that a little hard to believe.
He would have been fine if he had stayed in the store and called the cops after shooting the first guy.
???
This sure 'nuff looks like a murder to me, and I really can't imagine what a "better" lawyer might have done for this guy. Seems to me like he screwed himself, pure and simple. As the saying goes, "you can't make chicken soup out of chicken . . . ." Defense attorneys pretty much have to play the cards they're dealt, and this one wasn't dealt a good hand.
As to an appeal, most people just don't understand what happens on appeal. Appeals courts review the trial record to look for procedural errors or errors of law. They generally don't re-weigh the evidence, and they don't hear testimony or conduct trials. The defendant doesn't enter a new plea or get to change his old one. I'd say, absent a major blunder on the part of the trial judge (and that seems unlikely as, legally, this is a pretty run-of-the-mill murder case) this guy is probably going away for a very long time.
ChattanoogaPhil
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From a quick uneducated glance at Oklahoma law it looks like 1st Degree Manslaughter just about perfectly depicts the incident. Am I reading the below correctly?
"When perpetrated unnecessarily either while resisting an attempt by the person killed to commit a crime, or after such attempt shall have failed."
Maximumbob54
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If anyone knows that address how to send that guy care packages in the prison mail I will be happy to send him stuff. While I understand the law, I applaud the fact that some scumbag won't be right back out on the streets in a few months. But I'm sure they will lock this guy away for a short stretch of forever. Sometimes the law hardly seems right to me.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
According to news reports, the jury was allowed to consider this as a lesser included charge, but they opted for murder instead. Not to second guess a jury, but it looks like they felt he had time and did in fact premeditate the killing before he shot the guy five more times. Bad decision on his part. And by the way, Caj, I truly do LOVE that gumbo!
In Rural Texas we have the "He Just Needed Killin' Laws" that cover situations like this.
I once worked a case where a man found his Doper next door neighbor in his garage stealing tools.
He kicked him out, but didn't call the police.
A while later, the good citizen man came back out to mow his lawn with his P226 in a holster. Doper comes over to "whip his ***". Man whips out P226 and shoots Doper three times in the chest, Doper flops to ground, Man shoots Doper three more times in the back.
We talked the DA into giving the Good Citizen Man 10 years Defered Aduciation Probation so that he could keep his guns, just couldn't buy any while on the Defered Probabtion.
Doper had fought Police on numerous occasions, history of family violence, tons of drug arrest and had kidnapped his eldery grandparents at gun point one time. A real Scum Bag Doper.
In the Plea Hearing before the Judge, the judge looked at me on the stand and ask "What do you think about the way he shot the deceased?" I looked at him (a former high school classmate) and said, "Your Honor, it looks like what we had was three up, three down, end of an inning to me." The Judge declared a recess till the laughing was over. Everybody knew the Dead Doper. That's how things are handled in Rural Texas.
Rule 303
I once worked a case where a man found his Doper next door neighbor in his garage stealing tools.
He kicked him out, but didn't call the police.
A while later, the good citizen man came back out to mow his lawn with his P226 in a holster. Doper comes over to "whip his ***". Man whips out P226 and shoots Doper three times in the chest, Doper flops to ground, Man shoots Doper three more times in the back.
We talked the DA into giving the Good Citizen Man 10 years Defered Aduciation Probation so that he could keep his guns, just couldn't buy any while on the Defered Probabtion.
Doper had fought Police on numerous occasions, history of family violence, tons of drug arrest and had kidnapped his eldery grandparents at gun point one time. A real Scum Bag Doper.
In the Plea Hearing before the Judge, the judge looked at me on the stand and ask "What do you think about the way he shot the deceased?" I looked at him (a former high school classmate) and said, "Your Honor, it looks like what we had was three up, three down, end of an inning to me." The Judge declared a recess till the laughing was over. Everybody knew the Dead Doper. That's how things are handled in Rural Texas.
Rule 303
Maximumbob54
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I have given serious thought to moving to Texas.
Harry
"In all the confusion, I forgot to count - did I fire five or six times.Well, do you feel lucky...punk? Well do ya?"
I guess the pharmacist just got done watching Harry Callahan and was under the influence of what justice should be..and not what is, unless your in Texas (God Bless Texas)
"In all the confusion, I forgot to count - did I fire five or six times.Well, do you feel lucky...punk? Well do ya?"
I guess the pharmacist just got done watching Harry Callahan and was under the influence of what justice should be..and not what is, unless your in Texas (God Bless Texas)
ancient-one
US Veteran
After reading the news coverage since day one, I think some of the lies that he told early on shot his credibility and anything he or his attorney said was not accepted.
I don't agree with the 1st degree murder conviction and the life sentence. Many people, not in the process of being robbed, have committed murder and have been sentenced to much shorter terms.
I think he should have been convicted of manslaughter and sentenced accordingly.
I don't agree with the 1st degree murder conviction and the life sentence. Many people, not in the process of being robbed, have committed murder and have been sentenced to much shorter terms.
I think he should have been convicted of manslaughter and sentenced accordingly.
