Success with Hammer Stud!!! - Please help with id of 44 DA 1st Model

[Dazed&Confused]

Hello,
I have what I think (from searching here) is a .44 Double Action 1st Model Frontier in 44-40. Is this accurate, or do I have something else? Whatever it is, can anyone offer a guesstimate on when it was made/shipped and possible value. It's marked as follows: Serial number on butt (11,xxx), latch and inside right grip panel, double row of info on top of barrel (Smith & Wesson etc. - last date is May 11 & 25 1880). No caliber markings. Cylinder length = 1 9/16", barrel length = 6". Also, would anybody know where I can get a hammer stud? Would one from different model S&W fit? (Should I post in S&W Smithing?)

Thanks!
Dazed

 

[opoefc]

From your photo, it appears that your ID is correct. The frames were made for these .44DAs before 1899, so they are all classed as antiques by the BATF, however guns were assembled and shipped as late as WW1 era, so getting the actual ship date requires a letter from Roy Jinks, Factory Historian. There's a link on this Forum for a copy of the order form for a factory letter. If your gun needs repairs, I would estimate the value as between $500 and $750, depending on how expensive a repair is needed. Ed.

 

[rhmc24]

If you can explain the term 'hammer stud' I can probably help. I just don't recognize a part by that name. I have several of this model S&W and have done most work on them that any need. I am only offering information, not gunsmithing services.

 

[Dazed&Confused]

The Hammer Stud (not sure of the terminology I guess) would be the piece that goes in the hole that the arrow is pointing to in the attached picture. It's what the hammer rotates on. It's left end protrudes thru the sideplate where a nut screws on to secure that piece. The other end is screwed into the frame. What's the correct name for this part?
...Dazed

 

[rhmc24]

You used the correct name. Your picture shows it complete and intact which led me to believe you had something else in mind. I know of no source of parts for these old S&Ws other than canvassing various dealers.
The usual fault with the stud is stripped thread which is possible to fix by rethreading to a smaller size and make a new nut to fit. I had to make special tool to take the stud out so a fix is not likely to be economical. If the stud itself is broken I have no simple fix like that in mind.

Seems possible to make a screw to replace both the stud and its nut. It would likely require a slave pin procedure to install the side plate.
Interesting challenge. Hope this helps.

 

[mrcvs]

I own one of these, number 10,1XX. It was shipped to Sears, Roebuck & Company on 26 November 1900. I would suspect yours shipped somewhere around this date, as yours is about 1,000 numbers away from mine.

 

[deadin]

It was shipped to Sears, Roebuck & Company on 26 November 1900

Weird.... Mine (#11,808) was shipped to Montgomery Ward in Chicago on 12/31/1900.

End of the year filling mail order houses stock???

 

[Dazed&Confused]

Wow! Thanks for the shipping info. Mine is actually 11,26x which is between those numbers so I guess it could have gone to either place.

As for the Hammer Stud, it is broken - the 1st picture shows how it's supposed to look and the 2nd pic shows it's actual condition. I can make the tool you mentioned to use to inscrew it from the frame. If I had a replacement part - real or replica - I can replace it myself so the only cost would be the price of the part. Any ideas as to where I might find a replacement or have one made?

Thanks again for all the help and info!
...Dazed

 

[mxbob]

I believe that a machinist could make one of the studs. Since you have both pieces to show him I would try that.
Bob Ray 1815

 

[twaits]

You might want to contact Dave Chicoine. He may have one of these or be able to make one:

oldwestgunsmith.com

 

[mrcvs]

I forgot to say that the revolver shipped to Sears, Roebuck & Company also shipped to Chicago, IL.

 

[Dazed&Confused]

I emailed Dave and I'm still waiting to hear back from him. I've been unable to find a machinist near where I live (I kinda live out in the boonies plus I'm new to the area). Can anyone make a recommendation of a machinist that could make this part?

Meanwhile I was able to remove the hammer stud with a tool I made from an M14 stock liner nut driver I had on hand.

Thanks again,
...Dazed

 

[rhmc24]

Question that comes to mind re possibility of machining a new stud is the thread on the ends. If it is a standard thread that the usual lathe can cut it is a lot simpler job than if it is a special S&W thread. In that case it would involve making a new nut and re-threading the hole in the frame.

I don't think you should be looking for a machinist to make the stud. Better would be a skilled gunsmith who is equipped and experienced in making parts. I guestimate 4 to 6 hours for the job. I'm slow and at 87 can't take on new clients but it would be an interesting job. I'm a restorer rather than a gunsmith. See mine almost same as yours, but wood grips.

 

[Dazed&Confused]

Thanks for the advice. I'll look for gunsmiths too. If I had a small lathe, I could probably create one - eventually. ;-) Unless it required some kind of heat treating/tempering etc.

Could something that small be TIG welded? What about using a spot-welder with the assembled pieces held between the tongs?

The search continues...

Thanks to all for the info and advice,
...Dazed

 

[rhmc24]

Tig or mig welding would be an iffy proposition. If it were mine I would probably try it but prep for it could get complicated and chance for success maybe 50-50. I don't see spotwelding as an option.

 

[mmaher94087]

DAZED..
Twaits said it: "You might want to contact Dave Chicoine. He may have one of these or be able to make one:

oldwestgunsmith.com

He's worth the wait. Mike #283

 

[10/22]

Tig or mig welding would be an iffy proposition. If it were mine I would probably try it but prep for it could get complicated and chance for success maybe 50-50. I don't see spotwelding as an option.

If it were mine I would try tapering down the broken end and bronze welding it. That only requires getting it red hot. The bearing surface could be easily filed smooth. The bronze would also work as a bearing surface, cutting the load on the pivot point. Fine work but a small torch and care will do it. They bronze weld bulldozer shovels once the steel tears. Makes a tough fix.

Probably the reason they break in the first place is because they are too hard and break rather than yield.
10/22.

 

[rhmc24]

10/22 No disagreement with what you suggest. Sounds practical. I only refer to what I am equipped to do.

 

[10/22]

10/22 No disagreement with what you suggest. Sounds practical. I only refer to what I am equipped to do.

By that I take it mechanical skills, because it would cost about $40 for a torch and a few bucks for the rod to do the job. Still you may have a pal or know someone that this is not a big deal to do. With only broken parts, you have very little to lose.

 

[rhmc24]

I have no lack of skills. I have made several guns from scratch, my latest a revolving shotgun. Makes me wonder how you would assure concentricity and alignment while brazing it.