Ohio Police Encounter - Notification

[hatt]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

What are you scared of with an honest citizen having a holstered gun? Why are you unwilling to accept that the honest citizen has a gun for the same reason you have a gun?

 

[cmort666]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety?

Are you kidding? Have you watched the video?

I wouldn't feel safe around THAT cop unless I had my CAR15 and several loaded thirty round magazines.

Having a strange person monkeying around with my firearm, which he may very well not know how to safely handle (and which others' experiences say he probably won't) doesn't make me "safe" in ANY way.

Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

I'm one of those sensitive types who gets "in fear for your life" when somebody THREATENS TO MURDER ME.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Based on what he says in the video, he's more likely to SHOOT me with it.

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

Will I get to threaten to murder people and then arrest them for not meeting a statutory requirement that I INTENTIONALLY prevent them from meeting?

 

[redlevel]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

I had a brief career as a rural Deputy/City PD a long time ago. I have stopped a few cars at 3 in the morning, with the only help 30 miles away. I assumed every one of them was armed.

I have to say, too, that you seem obsessed with an officer shooting someone reaching for a gun. What's with that? Sure, you have to be careful, but that is the nature of the work. It was the nature of my work as a teacher, too. I had to deal with people on at least a weekly basis that I suspected were armed, without even a fraction of the authority an officer has.

Here are a couple of reasons I am glad the 4th amendment is there, even if some officers seem to ignore it. In each of these instances, if the author is telling the whole story, officers committed gross violations of the 4th amendment. If you request it, I will PM you a link to the posts.

Around 10PM last night I went to make a few deposits at the Chase ATM on Baker Rd so I could post a payment to my credit card that night, carrying my G19 in a MTAC Minotaur, being that I was depositing cash and three different checks I turned my car off, and my lights. Finished my deposit and cranked the car back up, but forgot to turn my lights back on, pulled out on Jiles Rd and noticed my lights were off, so I turned them on, then I get lit up by CCPD, pulled into the Kroger parking lot at the corner of Cherokee/Jiles, comes up to the window and goes through the whole schbeel of "do you know why I pulled you over, have you been drinking, etc, etc", and requested my license, which I produced. Then came the question I was waiting for, "Are there any weapons in the car?"; I said yes, told him what and where, and his demeanor changes, he takes a literal step back, says to keep my hands on the steering wheel and goes to his car. About 5 minutes pass and I noticed 2 more CCPD cars pulling up, he returns to the window and tells me to unlock the passenger door, I do, then he asks if it's loaded, I tell him loaded and chambered. Another officer opens the door and takes my pistol out of my holster, and walks back to his car, at this point there's another CCPD car behind me, the officer who initially pulled me over says to sit tight while they run the serial number, which takes a surprisingly long time, then I get my pistol back in pieces from the officer who took it, and the ammo from the officer who pulled me over. I was then given a verbal warning for my having my lights off when I pulled out of the bank, and told to drive safe, being that this is the first time I've been pulled over for any reason, I wasn't thinking anything besides compliance with their wishes, but in retrospect, I'm fairly upset that I was treated like a criminal. Is there anything I can do?
-----------------------------------------------


I figured it would happen eventually, living in a city not known to be the most liberty minded, and it did. I was hassled by Columbus PD for lawfully carrying a weapon.

I was on my way home last night at about 2:15am riding one of my motorcycles and openly carrying a Glock in a Serpa holster. A Columbus PD car was behind me for about a mile and pulled me over as I went through an intersection.

I got off my bike and put it on the stand, removed my helmet and turned around to face the officer with my hands clasped in front of me.

Officer Podges: "Sir, keep your hands where I can see them."

My hands were already where he could see them, but to show that I had no intent to escalate the situation, I held my hands to chest level with my palms facing forward.

Podges: "You can put your hands down. I pulled you over because I saw you were carrying a gun."

Me: "Yes sir."

No, I didn't ask if I was free to go, as he had pulled me over and it was obvious that I was not. Nor did I ask why, as he had already informed me before I could ask.

Podges: "Do you have a permit to carry that?"

"I do."

I know that a GWL is not required to carry in your vehicle, but at the moment I was standing by the side of the road, and not in or on my vehicle, although I was only standing there because officer Podges had stopped me while I was carrying about my own lawful business...

He asked me for my "permit" and for my driver's license. I told him that my wallet was under the seat and that I had to reach in my pocket to get the keys. He agreed and as I turned to put the key into the seat release he grabbed the grip of my Glock and tugged. I stood up straight to face him as he asked "Is it okay if I remove this for my safety?"

Me: "No sir."

Podges: "For my safety."

Me: "I do not consent to you taking my weapon."

He stood there for several moments staring at me with his fingers still on the grip of my gun and finally removed his hand. I'm not sure why he felt that attempting to remove a weapon with which he is unfamiliar from a holster he does not understand (he was attempting to pull it from a RH Serpa with the fingers of his LEFT hand without pushing the index finger release) was safer for either of us.
I also found it odd that he didn't seem to understand such a common holster, as most of the Columbus PD officers I have seen were carrying what appears to be Serpa level 3 holsters. I couldn't tell what he was carrying because I was facing his spotlight the entire time.

He then asked me to remove it myself and place it under the seat, and I agreed. In hindsight, I don't think I would do that again, as it made me nervous to touch my weapon while I was clearly detained, but hindsight is always better. Oh, well.

I handed him my driver's license and GWL as he had requested, and he went back to his car, shouting over his shoulder that he didn't understand why I had such a problem. My inner smart-*** didn't come out (probably for the better) and he disappeared. I suppose he was checking my tag, insurance, running my driver's license to see if I had warrants or something. I don't know.

He came back after several minutes and as he handed my licenses back he told me that he knew that it was my right to carry like that, but if I continue to do so, I will probably keep getting pulled over.

I told him to have a good morning and he left as I was putting my license up and returning my holster to my waist.

I intend to continue carrying just the way that I was, and will look forward to speaking with officer Podges again. Except for violating my rights by stopping me without reason and attempting to take my pistol without my consent, and delaying me for 10-15 minutes when I had somewhere to be, he was somewhat cordial. Other than the whole unlawful harassing me thing, you know.

I am going to send an open records request to the Columbus PD for a copy of the dash cam video or voice recording if it is available, and I intend to speak with a supervisor of officer Podges and explain to him that I don't think it is fair to be hassled by police when I have not violated the laws, nor do I think it is fair (or legal) to continue to stop me without reason, as officer Podges warned me he would do.

Does anyone have insight as to whom I should address the open records request or how to find the supervisor of officer Podges? I wish I was as versed with the individual laws and cases that support my right to carry without being hassled as some of you on here. Jones v. Florida?

 

[cmort666]

Who wants to bet this gets national media coverage?

Local media have already picked it up.

It'll probably make Drudge Report.

I'm waiting for Glenn Beck to talk about it.

Update: Hotair.com has picked it up. The cop is toast, even if they don't fire him. He'll never be effective in his job (if he ever was) again.

 

[oldman45]

I think the safest place for my handgun is secured in my holster. Having a stranger handle a loaded firearm that they most likely are NOT trained on in my close vicinity does not improve anyones safety. Why do YOU feel my holstered firearm presents a threat to a LEO. At that point he has run my plates and he has my drivers license, so my ID is pretty well established. Will my 50 + years of behavior suddenly change causing me to shoot a LEO over a minor traffic ticket? You honestly think I'm going to trade a few points on my drivers license and a $100 ticket for an almost certain felony conviction and probably life in prison by shooting a LEO during a simple traffic stop?

Armed people (criminals, intoxicated, those upset over family or other issues and many more) shoot officers all to often. Stand in front of me and see if I cannot draw and fire before you can reach your gun. Something may be said that sets off a rage. The person knows how far they may carry it but not the officer. It becomes an unexpected event. As I said, there are hundreds of videos where officers were shot during a routine traffic stop and not all the shooters had prior records but they all had guns.

 

[cmort666]

Armed people (criminals, intoxicated, those upset over family or other issues and many more) shoot officers all to often.

And all too often, cops like Alvin Weems and Andreas Mehserle senselessly shoot citizens for no good reason. Logically, we have the right to disarm the police during an encounter, RIGHT?

Why ON EARTH would I feel "at my ease" when a cop like the one in the video is armed?

 

[walnutred]

As I said, there are hundreds of videos where officers were shot during a routine traffic stop and not all the shooters had prior records but they all had guns.

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

 

[cmort666]

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

You have to wonder why they just didn't tell the cop they had a gun in the first place...

 

[hatt]

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

Just like criminals do when they see a gun free zone sign. They should put cams on those signs so we can lol at all the criminals running away in fear after seeing the sign.

 

[JamesArthur60]

You've posted other anti-cop actions in the past on this forum. For one living in a nice suburb, I'm surprised you have so many issues with the police. Regarding this particular individual, unless you were there during the stop in question, how do you know the facts of the case? Do you believe everything written on the internet? Why get so upset. It was allegedly posted by the persons defense attorney. The attorney wasn't even there. He has to argue and justify the statements made by his paying client. Two sides to every story. Except if one has an anti-cop attitude I suppose.

 

[walnutred]

Just like criminals do when they see a gun free zone sign. They should put cams on those signs so we can lol at all the criminals running away in fear after seeing the sign.

Criminals can be so confusing. It's almost like they do not want to live within the norms of conventional society. For a while the Criminal Protection Zone signs seemed an inside joke in Columbus. Whenever the morning news did a story on an armed robbery the camera man positioned the reporter so the No Guns sign was visible over the reporters shoulder.

 

[oldman45]

And you feel that if the LEO had asked for their firearms up front the shooter would have politely handed them over?

The criminals may not have but most law abiding citizens would. When a firearm is found suddenly, it gets immediate attention.

A long time acquaintance of mine, a lawyer, was recently shot to death in an unusual incident by a deputy sheriff. The lawyer was armed with two guns and the sheriff claims he pulled a gun on him so he was shot. The man was a law abiding supporter of the law. I do not see it happening as the deputy claims but I could see the lawyer getting crazy when asked for his guns and getting himself shot.

People let their tempers flare occasionally when dealing with LEO. These are not bad people but they do bad things in a moment of rage. Eliminate the weapon for a while and nobody gets hurt. If I will give up my weapon, then anyone else should. It does not mean the gun is gone forever.

 

[hatt]

The criminals may not have but most law abiding citizens would. When a firearm is found suddenly, it gets immediate attention.

A long time acquaintance of mine, a lawyer, was recently shot to death in an unusual incident by a deputy sheriff. The lawyer was armed with two guns and the sheriff claims he pulled a gun on him so he was shot. The man was a law abiding supporter of the law. I do not see it happening as the deputy claims but I could see the lawyer getting crazy when asked for his guns and getting himself shot.

People let their tempers flare occasionally when dealing with LEO. These are not bad people but they do bad things in a moment of rage. Eliminate the weapon for a while and nobody gets hurt. If I will give up my weapon, then anyone else should. It does not mean the gun is gone forever.

So you don't think your buddy pulled his gun, just got mad. I didn't know getting mad was a capital offense.

 

[kennyb]

You've posted other anti-cop actions in the past on this forum. For one living in a nice suburb, I'm surprised you have so many issues with the police. Regarding this particular individual, unless you were there during the stop in question, how do you know the facts of the case? Do you believe everything written on the internet? Why get so upset. It was allegedly posted by the persons defense attorney. The attorney wasn't even there. He has to argue and justify the statements made by his paying client. Two sides to every story. Except if one has an anti-cop attitude I suppose.

james...even a mild search will illustrate that this guy has spent lots and lots of time with his anti-cop banter here on this forum...he has been called down,reined in and yet his seeting hatred continues...if you want to avoid him...simply go to an area of the forum where members are sending sympathy for an officer killed or injured in the line of duty...you can be very certain you will not find him there!

 

[oldman45]

So you don't think your buddy pulled his gun, just got mad. I didn't know getting mad was a capital offense.

It is when you pull a gun that is in an attempt to be taken away. There has been people get very mad when getting a ticket and attacks an officer.

I found it strange my friend was fatally shot by a rifle being used by a deputy wearing camo clothing just a few feet off the wooded proerty belonging to the friend. It is one of those situations where I was not there, did not talk with those that were but learned of the background of the shooting.

 

[oldman45]

BTW: I did some research and found the same two officers in Canton OH were also involved in another large court case about 8 yrs ago pertaining to their actions in a similar stop.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

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[redlevel]

People let their tempers flare occasionally when dealing with LEO. These are not bad people but they do bad things in a moment of rage. Eliminate the weapon for a while and nobody gets hurt. If I will give up my weapon, then anyone else should. It does not mean the gun is gone forever.

You are basically saying that the average citizen just can't be trusted with a gun. Do you realize that many of the arguments you have used are stock-in-trade for the anti-gun crowd?

Just so you and others won't think I'm one of the anti-cop crowd, and that I have a completely closed mind about this, I remind you of this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/concea...ers-encounter-two-coastal-ga-le-agencies.html

I wonder why those officers felt perfectly at ease with my daughter sitting in the back of their patrol units with a handgun available to her?

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Simple question now. Why are some here unwilling to give up their gun for a few minutes when it is for their own safety? Are you so in fear for your life that you feel someone will come after you as the officer handles a routine stop? Are you afraid the officer will shoot you? If so, you are more apt to be shot when he sees you reach for a gun.

Maybe you think the officer is going to steal your gun?

Spend a few days in the shoes of an officer and see if you feel the same.

He is just as likely to shoot me as I am him:not much of a chance at all. My gun will remain in my holster unless I have reason to draw or he's handcuffing me. I plan on involveing myself in federal law enforcment, which will obviously start with local expiriance. I swear on my honor that I won't disaem anyone who hasn't given me probable cause to beleive he's going to hurt me or someone else.(Being armed is not probable cause)

 

[oldman45]

You are basically saying that the average citizen just can't be trusted with a gun. Do you realize that many of the arguments you have used are stock-in-trade for the anti-gun crowd?

Just so you and others won't think I'm one of the anti-cop crowd, and that I have a completely closed mind about this, I remind you of this thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/concea...ers-encounter-two-coastal-ga-le-agencies.html

I wonder why those officers felt perfectly at ease with my daughter sitting in the back of their patrol units with a handgun available to her?

Many officers trust a lady with a gun moreseo than men. I cannot second guess why anyone does anything.

As to gun recovery, I am on the side of the law and safety for all. There is not an anti gun bone in my body. If the officer that stopped the man just before the man shot Congresslady Giffords had asked about a gun, the shooting may not have taken place. One officer shooting I knew personally took place after the officer allowed the traffic offender to keep possession of his gun.

If letting a person keep his firearm during processing was safe, then why are pro gun states either allowing or requiring officers to take possession of the gun? Why does any state require notification? Simply put, it is potentially a dangerous situation to either public or officer safety.