Duty to inform?

[cmort666]

In short, officers should respect citizens, and citizens should respect officers, just as ladder13 suggested.

Know the law, obey the law.

 

[Murdock]

Gary Slider:

Murdock, You say the map is wrong and then you say in ME you don't have to inform but a state trooper said you should. Would you please point out what on my map is wrong. Thank you and Stay Safe,

Whoops! My bad. I had a dyslexic moment and reversed the codes in your map key. You have my apology, Gary.

I have edited my original post to eliminate any incorrect information about your map.

 

[27145]

 

[rchance]

In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.

I know how to treat Arizona officers from now on. Thanks for the info.

 

[The Big D]

Hmmmmmmm, what does that mean?

I know how to treat Arizona officers from now on. Thanks for the info.

 

[cmort666]

Hmmmmmmm, what does that mean?

Sounds like "no notification, letter of the law". They have no right to expect anything else.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

Part of my job is to replace computers in banks. That happens after they close. A few months ago I and two others were finishing up a branch at about 11:30 PM. We had just locked up the front door, put the key in the night deposit drop, and got in my car to leave. Blue lights out of nowhere. LOTS of blue lights. Four cars, four officers. They weren't there when we got in the car, and 10 seconds later they were. They were waiting for us to leave. Seems the cleaning people at a neighboring business called 911 to report people in the bank removing computers. Now since the job means leaving bank branches late at night, sometimes in fairly sketchy neighborhoods, ALL of us have CCW's and carry.

We three kept our hands visible, and complied with all requests as cheerfully as possible.

Officers were professional, we were polite, and fortunately we had all the paperwork authorizing us to be at the branch along with the branch managers personal phone number. Things were resolved quickly and painlessly, once my heart started beating again after the surprise of the blue lights.

My point is that I can't imagine how much the situation would have escalated if we had been required to inform these officers that we were armed. Trying to see it from their point of view, they've been called to a bank in the wee hours, see three men getting into a vehicle, and then find out they're carrying? I'm thinking that the situation would not end up as it is now, something to look back on and (almost) laugh.

Asking the many LEO's here; what would your thought processes have been?

 

[eyegots2no]

Hand them your drivers license AND your permit. That is the way it works and is required in Texas. Besides---when a Policeman sees your permit---he pretty much knows you are not a felon and would rather not waste any more of his time messing with you---the cleaners are about to close and his girlfriend is calling.

 

[The Big D]

First, BaldEagle, that's an excellent accounting of what transpired. Very well-written, in fact. Superb second post.

Now, though I have strong opinions on several matters relating to CCW, whether to "inform the police" is NOT among those opinions.

That said, I always inform...and did so even when I was an active duty LEO.

Here's the "problem," as I see it. If you are properly concealed and are not required to inform, that's all well and good. On the other hand, if you (not you personally, BaldEagle) don't inform in an enforcement circumstance such as depicted below and for any reason the LEO identifies you as CCW, you will most likely find yourself in a very uncomfortable situation.

Trust me on this one, a good street cop can detect tells.

Be safe.



"QUOTE=BaldEagle1313;136064224]Part of my job is to replace computers in banks. That happens after they close. A few months ago I and two others were finishing up a branch at about 11:30 PM. We had just locked up the front door, put the key in the night deposit drop, and got in my car to leave. Blue lights out of nowhere. LOTS of blue lights. Four cars, four officers. They weren't there when we got in the car, and 10 seconds later they were. They were waiting for us to leave. Seems the cleaning people at a neighboring business called 911 to report people in the bank removing computers. Now since the job means leaving bank branches late at night, sometimes in fairly sketchy neighborhoods, ALL of us have CCW's and carry.

We three kept our hands visible, and complied with all requests as cheerfully as possible.

Officers were professional, we were polite, and fortunately we had all the paperwork authorizing us to be at the branch along with the branch managers personal phone number. Things were resolved quickly and painlessly, once my heart started beating again after the surprise of the blue lights.

My point is that I can't imagine how much the situation would have escalated if we had been required to inform these officers that we were armed. Trying to see it from their point of view, they've been called to a bank in the wee hours, see three men getting into a vehicle, and then find out they're carrying? I'm thinking that the situation would not end up as it is now, something to look back on and (almost) laugh.

Asking the many LEO's here; what would your thought processes have been?[/QUOTE]

 

[Lost Lake]

I have no issue informing any cop that I have a weapon either. I have no problem keeping my hands in plain sight and following directions to the letter. If he wants my gun I will cheerfully hand it to him.

My problem is when the cop wants my gun. When he is offended I have a gun. When he escalates the stop just because I have a gun. Sure I'll hand it over, but I don't like it.

So what if I have a gun. I'm a law abiding citizen exercising my right. To treat me any different than if I didn't have a gun is wrong wrong wrong.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

Big D, thanks for the kind words. I did spend a bit of time editing. First draft was considerably less concise. I literally stumbled on this forum this afternoon while Googling "Model 28" and "Model 39". Had them 25 years ago, sold them (should have gotten rid of the ex-wife instead of the guns) and have recently obtained their replacements. The guns, not the wife.

Glad I found you guys. A wealth of information.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I figure the loose rounds and empty brass rolling out onto the ground when I open the door of my pickup is notification enough.

I don't do the 10/2 steering wheel thing, but I hand over both my DL and HCP at the same time. I've only been pulled over once in Tennessee and the cop never mentioned a thing about it.

Absolutely, I think being polite is key to a less than eventful stop. If the cop is being polite, be polite in return. If the cop is being a jerk, be polite in return. In all other circumstances, be polite.

My policy is to comply with all orders and deny requests--

May I search you car? = No sir, you do not have my permission.

Get out of the car now I am going to search this vehicle = Yes sir.

You sir are a prudent individual

Louisiana is a "must tell" state-but they'll know once they run your DL whether you tell them or not.

 

[jtpur]

Here is another one: of course, some people will surely dismiss them all as internet rumor.

Tonight I was driving my car down Chastain Lakes Rd in Kennesaw at 1am. I just drove past the wal-mart when I see another car approaching. I am going slightly above the speed limit, but I haven't seen a car since I exited 575. As I passed the car I realized it was Cobb Co. PD and I decreased my speed slightly to speed limit. I watched my mirrors and saw him loop around. He sped up on me and I put on my signal before his lights even went on. Sure enough BLUE LIGHTS. Since I work in Buckhead, handle large sums of money and leave at 1am, I carry my main, and a back-up because you never know.
He approaches my car and the dialog begins
Cop 1: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: Please tell me, but my guess is speeding.
C1: Do you know the speed limit on Chastain Rd?(We were on Chastain Lakes...)
Me:45
C1: I clocked you going 68.
Me: Really? I'm sure I wasn't going that fast.
C1: I need your license.
Me: Sure thing.(I hand him my license and GFL)
C1: Do you have a gun?
Me: I have 2, one on my hip. Backup on my ankle.(My hands have not left my steering wheel except to give him my license. He runs my permit, comes back valid)
C1: Why do you have 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C1: Ok, keep your hands visible, I'm going to ask you to step out of the car.
Me: ok(I wait for him to open the door)
C1: how do you open your door?
Me: Pull the handle...
C1: Ok put you hands on your head and face away from me.(At this point his gun is drawn and pointed at my head). Put you hands behind your back, if you move you will have a bullet in you.(I really don't know what to do. I wait for him to grab my hands because I really don't want to get shot.)
He disarms me and I hear sirens approaching.
Me: Don't tell me those sirens are for me.
C1: They are.
Meon't you think that's a little much. My guns are already in the grass, and I'm handcuffed.
C1: I have 1 gun, you had 2. I'm just trying to go home tonight.
Me: Understandable, but I'm already disarmed.
C2: Why do you have all these guns?
Me: I work in Buckhead, late at night.
C2: So, why do you need a gun.
Me: Have you ever been to buckhead at night? There are break-ins, violence... I want to stay alive.
C2: Why do you need 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C3: I get it, thank you.
C2: Have you ever been a cop?
Me:No
C2: Have you ever worked security?
Me: Yes
C2: So you were a security guard.
Me: No, but I work security at my restaurant, I am the line. I do everything, security is just one part of my job.
C2: So you haven't worked security.
Me: If you are asking if I have worn a shirt that says Security, my answer is no. If you are asking if I have worked security, without a shirt, my answer is yes.
C2: You don't know anything. Have you ever security in your job description?
Me: Yes. Security is in my job description, just like ordering food, and writing the schedule. I do everything.
C2: Cops get shot by permit holders everyday.
Me:**Shaking my head, and turning my head away from him and to the ground. I don't answer his questions anymore.**
C1: Can I search your bag?
Me: I think it is unnecessary, but if it will let me leave earlier then yes.
C1: So, is that a yes?
Me: Yes
C1: What's this?(20 ft away, in the dark)
Me: I have no idea, my vision is not that good.
C1: It says Amphetamines.
Me: That is my prescription, for ADHD, with my name on the bottle.
C3: Ok. Got it. I like what you are doing. I get it.
Me: Thanks, this is ridiculous.
C3: I know, we are almost done.
Me: Thank you.
C1: Ok, I'm going to put your firearms in the trunk and the ammo in the front seat. Get to where you are going. If you stop to get your guns out of your trunk, you will be pulled over again and arrested. I'm going to let you off with a verbal warning. Drive safe.

My thoughts:
1) I showed him my valid permit without asking. I don't have to declare, yet I did.
2) I understand safety, but once I'm disarmed, was everything else necessary?
3) He searched my car without asking. He only asked about my bag.
4) I had a gun pointed at my face for following the law, and being honest with the officer.
5) Not once was I a threat. I was calm, never quick movements.
6) How many times were my rights violated tonight? My count is 4.
7) I want to thank the third cop for not being a complete douche. The other 2, not so much.
8) I have no idea any of their badge numbers, names, or anything else. I just wanted to go to bed.

Questions:
Should I file a complaint with cobb county?
Am I unreasonable in thinking this was ridiculous?
Why does the second cop have a badge and a gun? He was a complete moron. I don't feel safe with him protecting me.

Thank you all for letting me vent. This was insane.

I do not know about GA but in Texas a CHL holder may be disarmed if the officer feels his safety is in question. So that being said, you were subjected to much more than I think would be proper. I see no need for him to pull his gun. You had a valid permit.
He could have disarmed you but putting your guns in the trunk, unloading them and telling you that you faced arrest (for what Id like to know) is more than excessive. I would file a complaint. First talk to his supervisor and if that does not produce much, Internal Affairs would be next.

You should not have consented to the search and I really wonder how consensual it was. It is obvious you felt intimidated and that would negate a "consent" search.

I think you were given what we used to call "street justice" because you offended his sensibilities.....most likely by having a gun, most likely by speeding and most likely because you did not tell him you were a permit holder, and most likely because he is a bit badge happy.

 

[S&W2244]

Duty To Inform

I may have missed it. What is the rule in Florida, do we need to inform if stopped?

 

[redlevel]

I do not know about GA but in Texas a CHL holder may be disarmed if the officer feels his safety is in question.

That isn't the case in GA, not without Reasonable Articulable Suspicion or Probable Cause. See the ruling from the Georgia Court of Appeals I linked to in this thread.

Just for the record, It wasn't me that happened to. I got that from the Georgia Packing dot org forum.

 

[Joe_Cooler]

Add Alabama to the inform list. Have to tell when stopped by police of trooper. Just hand permit over with DL and insurance card, keep hands where they can see. At night turn on interior light.

Oh, hide cooler before they see it. Officer got more upset about my water cooler that gun. Had to search vehicle only to find 2 bottles of cold water inside cooler. Gave him one before he left. Next time I'll have it open.

I do not believe AL has a duty to report. Their law on concealed carry is pretty permissive.

 

[raven818]

Here is a map I keep around to help with answering emails.

I just ripped off your map. TYVM.

 

[raven818]

I don't know how I wound up at this thread ( can't remember after 10 pages of it ). LEO for 17 years, I know a cop hater when I see ( read ) one, and there's a person all through the many pages here that I can see shooting their mouth off at every cop they come in contact with ( under their breath, of course ).

I can see this individual creating untold problems for themselves in every aspect of their life when someone disagrees with them, about anything. I would go further and say their hatred of police officers goes way beyond the spit being hurled.

Everybody, everywhere, probably has story to tell about some officer who, in their opinion, was wrong about something. That's the way it is. And as long as a few bucks from the bad guy can arm a thug on the street, cop's are going to be suspicious of everyone, and they should. All of them want to go home after their shift.

Hatred for the police, as with hatred as a whole, is not rational. Take the stories in the news, for instance...priests, preachers, teachers, G.I.'s, Guantanamo, politicians etc..etc..etc.. Hate them all? Or realize there's bad seeds everywhere?

This person, unless he just likes to shoot his mouth off, will eventually wind up in the funny papers. Unhealthy individual, for sure.

 

[redlevel]

I don't know how I wound up at this thread ( can't remember after 10 pages of it ). LEO for 17 years, I know a cop hater when I see ( read ) one, and there's a person all through the many pages here that I can see shooting their mouth off at every cop they come in contact with ( under their breath, of course ).

Why don't you call a spade a spade? Who is this person you are accusing (under your breath, of course) of being a cop hater?

 

[cmort666]

Why don't you call a spade a spade? Who is this person you are accusing (under your breath, of course) of being a cop hater?

The truth is that there are some people committed to denying the undeniable and excusing the inexcusable. The group to which they belong, within their magic chalk circle, is perfect and infallible. You're utterly unqualified to criticize their actions, be they ill-advised, ill-mannered or indeed indicative of mental illness.

You can't enforce the law if you can't or won't obey it yourself.

That doesn't stop some people from trying.