Who do I believe?

[blujax01]

I am looking at working up a +P load in 38 Special using Hornady 110 Grain XTP JHP bullets and Unique powder.

My research is confusing.
According to Alliant's web site, the max load should be:
6.3 grains
My Lyman 49th Edition says:
7.1 grains
My old Hornady Volume 2 from 1973 takes this out to:
7.8 grains

Alliant's max is barely a starting load per Hornady.

What gives?

 

[Rule3]

The powder companies recommended loads are generally(not always) a bit less than some manuals.

Powder formulations may or may not have changed.

I go with the current manuals.

But as they say, start low and work up.

Also, the Alliants website does not test the XTP, they used the Speer GD, yes it's 110 gr but not the "exact" bullet.


EDIT: The current Hornady 8th lists a range of 5.2 to 6.3 for Unique with the 110 xtp bullet. 6.3 being +P

 

[blujax01]

The powder companies recommended loads are generally(not always) a bit less than some manuals.

Powder formulations may or may not have changed.

I go with the current manuals.

But as they say, start low and work up.

Also, the Alliants website does not test the XTP, they used the Speer GD, yes it's 110 gr but not the "exact" bullet.

Thanks 3 (You don't mind that I call you "3", do you?) and as a noobie I always follow the advice to work up. But in this case I am not certain where to start.
I have also taken the liberty of using all JHP data as being equivalent, regardless of brand. This is a no-no?

So much to learn ...

 

[Rule3]

Read my edit. You can call be Ray, Jay, 3 or whatever.

I hate the word "generally" but yes you can substitute similar bullets of the same weight unless you are up at the max end.

Every little thing will change the test results. Primer brand, case, test method whatever.

The current Hornady test with 6.3 grs of Unique was from a 4" SW M 15 and gave 1050fps. Now if you shoot that out of a 2" snub it's gonna be less. If that is what you are using I believe it will be more than sufficient.

 

[mkk41]

I have also taken the liberty of using all JHP data as being equivalent, regardless of brand. This is a no-no?

Absolutely! Even when comparing bullets of the same weight , bullets of different manufacturer will differ in construction , bearing surface area , jacket material thickness and hardness , lead core hardness , amount of bullet seated in the case (volume diff).

Data from different publishers varies due to test methods , temp/humidity , powder lot to lot variations , primers , etc.

Reloading data is a guide , not gospel.

 

[walnutred]

This is also a good example why it can get stressful pushing the redline while reloading. I used to do that now most of my loading is somewhat pedestrian, preferring to use a larger cartridge if I need more power. Oddly the two cartridges I DO tend to push are 32 Long and 38 S&W.

 

[NiklasP]

blujax01,

You do not mention what kind of revolver you will be using these loads in. IF it is an alloy frame, +P rated revolver, or older steel-framed +P rated revolver, advice so far is what I would follow.

IF, instead, you intend to use them in a 357 Mag chambered revolver, I would suggest that you load to whatever max velocity you want or to whatever recoil level you are comfortable with (say, with a J-frame), or whatever load gives you smallest groups or shoots to POA.

Niklas

 

[Maximumbob54]

Joking...

I would just repeat what Rule3 said. Powders change, companies get bought out and steamline what they make, and this is a good reason to buy a chrono to work up loads.

 

[Steve C]

Remington lists their Express 110gr .38 spl muzzle velocity from a 4" barrel at 995 fps, Winchester lists the 110gr Silver Tip at 945 and Hornady +P 110gr FTX at 1,090 fps from the same length barrel.

Loads I've ran over the chrono with Remington 110gr jHP's on top of 6.5gr of Unique lit by a WSP primer in IMI cases averaged 1,141 fps from a 4" S&W 66. Sierra 110gr on top of 7.2grs WSP primers and WW cases did 1,207 from a Ruger 4-3/8" BH.

Hope this give you some real numbers to compare to the load data.

 

[venomballistics]

at the end of the day ... you believe yourself.
we can and should eliminate the hornady data from the good old days as some of the powders have changed a bit in the quarter century that has since passed.
that leaves you with Alliant and Lyman to work with in which case, begin work with the lower of the two .. if it shows some room on the pedal start into the Lyman data if a top load is being developed. if not .. just stick with the Alliant data

 

[blujax01]

Thanks, Fellas.

As the song goes:

"I love this bar."