Is it Self Defense to shoot an Intruder and/or burglar in the back?

[Copnomore]

Castle Doctorine

A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal doctrine arising from English common law[1] that designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his "castle"), and any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.

Castle Doctrines are legislated by state though not all states in the US have a Castle Doctrine law. The term "Make My Day Law" comes from the landmark 1985 Colorado statute that protects people from any criminal charge or civil suit if they use force – including deadly force – against an invader of the home.

Florida has this incoporated in their legislation.

 

[Varangi]

ok- I'm going to sound very condescending, just like I would with a classroom full of 22 year old, raised on facebook, know nothings but what they received from being tweeted, twated,or fed cool-aid as a brain stimulant police recruits.

I hereby apologize to anyone who takes offense..

Opinions are like ***-----, everybody has one. In a house,on a house,in a box, with a fox- who cares- Now Listen very carefully!!

If you are in fear for your life, or the life of someone else, or the suspect has already committed great bodily harm against someone or has threatened to commit it against you, and you feel that the suspect has the ability to carry out that threat, you are legally justified to use what ever force necessary to stop the threat- That includes running the *** over with a tractor for those of you who have one of those parked in your driveway. Any and all actions by the suspect prior to your articulation of the deadly threat are irrelevant, only the actions by the suspect that would make someone fear for their own or others safety is germane, (relevant) for you folks with the tractors...
Law Enforcement has a duty to render aid to the suspect after the threat is neutralized until EMS arrives- I rendered aid by placing handcuffs on the suspect, searching him for other weapons, searching for other victims and attending to the life threatening wounds of his 3 victims. Case law has it's place- just not where the rubber meets the road.

The industry standard is what would a "reasonable sane individual have done in that situation. I won't even get into San Francisco Juries...

For those of you who own the tractors, check your local hunting laws for guidance

Let the lawyers and God sort it out.

 

[M29since14]

For those of you who own the tractors, check your local hunting laws for guidance

Varangi, I was reading along in your entertaining little declaration and it just hit me - you're talking about me! I do in fact happen to have a tractor in my driveway, right now.

I am not sure what you have against folks like me (if anything), but you can bet I will be sure to be polite if I bump into any policemen the next time I am in Los Altos.

Probably won't have my tractor with me though, so you might not recognize me. Just look for the coveralls, corn cob pipe, and straw hat. We all wear that stuff. It's all we have.

 

[Lost Lake]

Do lawn tractors count?

So..... What if his back was turned and he was no threat but you heard him say "I'll come back and kill you in your sleep!"

Now that would be a pretty good reason to fear for your life and have to put him down asap....

 

[OIF2]

Varangi, I was reading along in your entertaining little declaration and it just hit me - you're talking about me! I do in fact happen to have a tractor in my driveway, right now.

I am not sure what you have against folks like me (if anything), but you can bet I will be sure to be polite if I bump into any policemen the next time I am in Los Altos.

Probably won't have my tractor with me though, so you might not recognize me. Just look for the coveralls, corn cob pipe, and straw hat. We all wear that stuff. It's all we have.

You'll fit in well with the hot tub crowd in Northern CA. A soft, non-threatening color on the tractor might help.
Bob

 

[Varangi]

Mr. M29
I truly offer no offense to the tractor drivers of the world. It is my fantasy to squish somebody with a tractor. It is my dark cop humor rising to the surface. I hope people will truly use their heads and not use info discussed here as the gospel.

We few, we happy few of tea drinkers on the left coast have thick skins to ward off liberals. Being called a tractor owner would not phase me. i would take Bob's advise and paint it pink.. I would give my left nut to drive a big tractor down to my LGS and buy some bullets filled with lead...

Cheers

Hey BoB- my hot tub is armed with a 338 lapua magnum spitting 300gr. fast movers- I'll show it to you if you dare, we can sit naked in the tub, drinking white wine, and shoot to kill slow moving prius'(can't even spell it right)...

 

[M29since14]

Mr. M29
I truly offer no offense to the tractor drivers of the world...

I knew you meant none, but just had to ride you a bit since you seem like someone who knows how to handle it.

Be careful out there among all those charging left-coast Prius-es. I think your .338 is a bit light. There are some good old boy tractor-drivers down in TN known for making .50 BMGs more suitable for the purpose. I am sure they can put some sort of special finish on one for you, to help with the hot-tub environment. You might check into it, if you don't already have access to one.

 

[Varangi]

I knew you meant none, but just had to ride you a bit since you seem like someone who knows how to handle it.

Be careful out there among all those charging left-coast Prius-es. I think your .338 is a bit light. There are some good old boy tractor-drivers down in TN known for making .50 BMGs more suitable for the purpose. I am sure they can put some sort of special finish on one for you, to help with the hot-tub environment. You might check into it, if you don't already have access to one.

Kno


Now that we're friends, is it ok if I call you "Wilbur"?
You sure know what to say to get us LEFT COAST people irked. We here in California feel it is an un-necessary waste of natural resources as well as lead poisoning to use a 600gr. Lead core bullet that travels faster than a Prius so we wrote a law which you (by the way) should comply with since we're smarter and and more caring than you. We have outlawed 50 cal in any/ all forms in beautiful CA.
We feel strongly that a 416 bullet can kill a Prius as easily as a 50 and with less waste. Mr. Barrett has a Prius killer in 416 but I am working with some very environmentally friendly folks in Arizona- Mc-m something to double the fun and kill 2 Prius', thus saving resources and helping Obama stimulate the economy.

Can I drive your tractor?

Mike

 

[daveh75]

Varangi....my Rus brother....*** are you doing in CA.....must be from the soft "white russian" side of the family.....LOL

 

[cotton]

when taking law enforcement classes in Illinois in 1990s I was shocked to learn I was required to retreat even in the face of deadly force while in my own home, unless I had no egress and then and only then when I was convinced the perp was intent to kill or seriously harm me and he/she had means to do so in immediate vicinity was I allowed to defend myself.. of course this is Illinois were talking about.. This was an ISP Trooper who taught this class and he said " If you tell the Judge you could have ran away rather than kill the intruder, then you are guilty of murder"
Then he explained how to articulate your actions before the court to avoid prosecution.. I took 4 semesters of these classes during the branch dividian thing in waco tx our teachers used this as a teaching opportunity , they told us everthing that would happen before it happened. The abuse allegations, the fire and much more.

 

[David LaPell]

I can tell you here in NY that if you shoot someone in the back, you are going to jail, with one exception, if the guy has committed a murder and you actually witnessed it or someone who was convicted of murder and is attempting to flee, then you can shoot him (her). Now, be that as it may, if someone does break into your home, you can shoot them, and it has been backed up. It's called the castle doctrine. However shooting someone in the back even in your home is a no-no. I recall a shooting back in the 90's in Florida where a guy who had been robbed many times finally waited one night and sure enough a guy with a very long rap sheet broke in. The owner saw the robber's silhouette in a doorway and opened up with a Beretta 92. Some bullets entered from the front, and some when the bad guy turned ended up in the back. The robber died, the family sued. After a very long and public trial the owner if I recall was either acquitted or the charges dropped.

 

[Varangi]

Do lawn tractors count?

Mr. LAKE,
I take all tractors very seriously- IS yours green? And Yes, lawn tractors count as long as you do not operate them on Sunday. (We have a law against that!) Oh, by the way- have you started studying for the commercial driver's license you will need shortly to drive a tractor?

As I stated previously, "dead men tell no tales!"
I was once asked," Why did you shoot him 8 times?

I responded," Because I could not reload fast enough before the rest of my team engaged him!"
And you know what- he lived...

cheers

 

[Varangi]

Varangi....my Rus brother....*** are you doing in CA.....must be from the soft "white russian" side of the family.....LOL

Nice segue! (pronounced segway to the tractor types) But alas, I come from the Land of the Ice and Snow,west of you. While some of my cousins were raping and pillaging western Europe and wenching in the British Isles, I along with my Father, Mother,brothers and my sisters were called by god to travel east and save the Byzantine Empire. We are "NORSE!"

 

[raven818]

Len,

Here in Mi. castle doctrine allows you to defend yourself from anyone who breaks into your home. The assumption is that they are going to harm you if they are breaking in and find you at home, and they are probably armed with whatever they used to get into the house (screwdriver, pry bar, etc). If, indeed, you could see that they were armed, then that is just another factor in your favor when the police arrive, and it certainly shows that the bad guy had the capability to harm anyone in the house.

Michigan's Castle Doctrine Law and You

Personally, I would position myself to cover the stairway leading to my family's bedrooms and call the police. As long as the bad guys stay downstairs I'm not going to go after them. There's nothing in my house worth shooting someone over except my family.

Everything in my house is worth shooting someone over. If you allow them walk away the first time, they, and probably other thugs, will come back for more of the same. Word spreads quickly on the street.

Dude, the guy was home and let us rob him . Who's in for tomorrow night? I get first pick on any females in the house.

Florida has one of the strongest Castle Doctrines in the country.

 

[M29since14]

Mike, I willing yield to your smarter and more caring nature - to say nothing of your thriftiness. On bring the .416. (I don't much like Prius-es either. )

And if you make it to Indiana, we can fix you up with a tractor for a bit of test driving. Even throw in a straw hat. Just let us know.

Your pal, "Wilbur"

 

[Varangi]

Mike, I willing yield to your smarter and more caring nature - to say nothing of your thriftiness. On bring the .416. (I don't much like Prius-es either. )

And if you make it to Indiana, we can fix you up with a tractor for a bit of test driving. Even throw in a straw hat. Just let us know.

Your pal, "Wilbur"

Yeaaaa hoo, hee hee!!! I'm in. I'll bring the bio-fuel.

ThNk you Mr. Wilber

don't suppose you have any "upper east side N.Y. libs standing around- no self respecting S.F. liberal would be seen in Indiana!! I would not want to squish someone from the great state of Indiana......

 

[trigtechr]

"Why is the Subject Shot in the Back?", by Dr. Bill Lewinsky, published in Police Marksman, November/December 2000, p. 20 provides a comprehensive discussion of the topic. If you can't find it, I can provide a copy.
trigtechr
DVC

 

[Armyphotog]

Are you the guy they just banned a similar type of questions on Colt Forum who just kept on listing this same type of question over and over again?

 

[Lost Lake]

Do lawn tractors count?

Mr. LAKE,
I take all tractors very seriously- IS yours green? And Yes, lawn tractors count as long as you do not operate them on Sunday. (We have a law against that!) Oh, by the way- have you started studying for the commercial driver's license you will need shortly to drive a tractor?

Here in Wisconsin, we start driving tractors when we are about 8 years old. I was driving cars and trucks on the road when I was 10. How are they going to deal with that?

 

[Rule 303]

If a Buglar or Home Invader is shooting at me and turns to run to a better position and I can get a round into his back, folks better believe I dump as many rounds into his back as I can. The first rule of gun fights is to win.

I believe I can explain to a Grand Jury of Citizens with common sense why I shot a person in the back that was in my home.

In Texas I can also explain to a Grand Jury why I shot a Burglar, who was running down the street with a gun and my property in his hand, in the back.

Rule 303